CLI rules.
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 7:34 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
[email protected]> wrote:
> I can insert a spoofed email using only telnet to port 25 on a mail server
> in about 30 seconds not counting the time it takes to type the message
> itself. Basically you telnet to port 25, issue four commands (HELO, MAIL
> FROM, RCPT TO, DATA), and then type the message itself.
>
> Spoofing email in an automated way only takes some basic python skills.
> Like I could teach anyone with a bit of computer experience how to do it
> in about an hour or so. This python script can run on anything that runs
> python, which is pretty much any general purpose computing device.
>
> So it is ridiculously cheap and easy to spoof email.
>
> The reason it is so easy is that email by itself has zero authentication
> of origin and an open, plaintext, protocol.
>
> The purpose of spf/dkim/dmarc is to add a level of authentication
> information to at least be able to reject some spoofed emails.
>
> What that Google bounce says is that there is something in the mail.com
> email which doesn't match the spf/dmarc/dkim records. I'm not 100٪ sure
> but it seems to not be happy with the linuxmail.org domain being inside
> the email record.
>
> How are the mail.com emails being generated? Are they through a web
> server client on mail.com? If not, where? And are the emails from a
> mail.com address or are you just using mail.com to relay mail from
> another domain?
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 12, 2023, 1:20 AM Jan-GAMs <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I can't recall ever using telnet for anything recent, it's ancient,
>> doesn't work with anything much in todays world. How would this be useful
>> in sending email?
>> On 3/11/23 21:36, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> telnet is fancy expensive equipment needed to spoof email? Ive never paid
>> for telnet
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 10:48 PM Jan-GAMs <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> You see, that's exactly where we part ways. Engulf and Devour was the
>>> villain corporation in the Silent Movie by Mel Brooks. Every time I saw
>>> that movie, I couldn't help but think of Microsoft and Google slicing up
>>> the planet for themselves. Gives me diarrhea just thinking about those two
>>> companies.
>>>
>>> You have to have some pretty fancy expensive equipment just to spoof
>>> email, so why bother? It's not the little folk who are doing the
>>> spoofing. So when they get all us little folk passing on all our secrets
>>> of our little lives. Then the spoofers will start using fake SPF/DKIM and
>>> then we're right back to as much or more SPAM as ever. Problem will be
>>> worse than ever.
>>> On 3/11/23 18:07, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>
>>> I was curious so found that Gmail started requiring emails sent to
>>> personal Gmail to have SPF or DKIM enabled or emails would be rejected or
>>> sent to spam. Good for them to drag the bad email hosts along for the ride
>>> in preventing spam.
>>>
>>> These prevention measures are ridiculously easy to implement so I don't
>>> have any patience for email hosts who don't set them up. If you can't
>>> handle simple tasks, outsource things to the big boys.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://support.google.com/a/answer/174124?hl=en#:~:text=Important%3A%20Starting%20November%202022%2C%20new,to%20verify%20they're%20authenticated
>>> .
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 7:33 PM Matt Hopkins <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do you use any Microsoft products? If you use Windows and care about
>>>> data security then you've already failed. I find Microsoft the most
>>>> deplorable, but I'm only one guy. I have to pick my battles. I refuse to
>>>> use Microsoft (anything) but we use Gmail at work and it's more or less
>>>> flawless. We have had some people report they can't reach us but the
>>>> resolution is always what has already been mentioned here. Google made
>>>> DKIM/SPF mandatory I want to say just a few months ago but many of the
>>>> smaller mail providers do not have it set up yet.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023, 4:49 PM Darin Steffl <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jan,
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of the links you shared aren't of Google being hacked, but people
>>>>> being scammed/phished. Tricking a user into sharing their login info means
>>>>> the user was scammed, not that google was hacked. ONE link you shared says
>>>>> less than 24 gmails in Iran were hacked somehow. None of your links share
>>>>> that google has had a massive data breach at any time. That's not to say
>>>>> it
>>>>> can't/won't happen but there's been no big hacks at Google as far as I can
>>>>> remember.
>>>>>
>>>>> I stand by my claim that you're being paranoid. I promise you that
>>>>> mail.com or hosting your own email is far less secure and more easily
>>>>> hacked than Google is. Do you have thousands of engineers working to keep
>>>>> your data secure? That answer is NO. I am not delusional enough to think
>>>>> that hosting my own Linux server for email will be more secure than
>>>>> Google.
>>>>> There's no way I can outsmart hackers, keep updated on hourly or daily
>>>>> updates and patches, etc. Nor do I want to do that when I can outsource to
>>>>> a company that does it much better than I do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't host a single server for our WISP in 11 years in business and
>>>>> I won't be starting today. The cloud is the future and keeps me hands off
>>>>> on servers and software. If there's a problem, it's someone else's job to
>>>>> fix it and my only job is to report the issue. What if I'm on vacation and
>>>>> I had one or more servers that failed? Now that's my job to fix things
>>>>> while I'm supposed to be off the clock. I don't need that kind of stress
>>>>> in
>>>>> my life so I refuse to host any servers that are mission critical to my
>>>>> business. The only thing resembling a server would be our Preseem
>>>>> appliance
>>>>> but we have backup OSPF routes around it in case that fails.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our billing system is Azotel and they have hosted it in the cloud for
>>>>> us since we started 11 years ago. Total downtime in 11 years is under 1
>>>>> hour. Not every cloud service is that reliable. They handle the multiple
>>>>> backups and securing of the servers too. Slack, for example, has probably
>>>>> had 12 hours of downtime or subpar performance in the 5 years we've used
>>>>> it
>>>>> but it still was an issue I didn't have to fix myself.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Mar 11, 2023 at 2:31 PM Steve Jones <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I like dmarc since you get to dictate the strictness and get reports
>>>>>> on your overall deliverability
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 7:44 PM Darin Steffl <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't recall any hacks or data breaches to Google at all. I've
>>>>>>> seen plenty of other platforms with breaches like t-mobile but Google is
>>>>>>> pretty secure. I think you're acting a little paranoid in protecting
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> phone number. I can pay some online service and get your home address,
>>>>>>> phone numbers, and social security number if I wanted to. This
>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>> that you think is very secure is almost public knowledge for a fee.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As others have said, DKIM/SPF are industry standards, not Google,
>>>>>>> and they're pretty old at this point. DMARC is newer, to me at least, in
>>>>>>> the last several years so not every platform gives much weight to this
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> DKIM and SPF is a must nowadays for any email provider.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023, 4:03 PM Josh Baird <[email protected]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DKIM/SPF/DFMARC aren't "made-up standards" from Google.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 4:31 PM Jan-GAMs <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't see how you come to the conclusion that my paid for mail
>>>>>>>>> service is supposed to have recently imposed made-up standards from
>>>>>>>>> google
>>>>>>>>> that comply only with google as some sort of long-standing standard.
>>>>>>>>> It's
>>>>>>>>> a recent standard imposed by google. And I'm never going to
>>>>>>>>> willingly give
>>>>>>>>> google my phone number so that when they get hacked again the hackers
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> have my email and my phone number. Why don't I just broadcast on some
>>>>>>>>> public website my social security number too? Yeah, tiktok or
>>>>>>>>> twitter,
>>>>>>>>> give them my phone number, ssi, home address, all my emails along
>>>>>>>>> with my
>>>>>>>>> real name. Because when you give google your phone number, they now
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> exactly who you are and access to all your private info. How many
>>>>>>>>> times in
>>>>>>>>> the last couple years has google been hacked? Constantly! I am not
>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>> to freely give this shit to them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, I'm wrong, you're right. When I bought the phone, google
>>>>>>>>> forced me into an email address as part of using the phone. I never
>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>> that email and I refuse to login to anything using that email. Other
>>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>>> that I don't know how to tell them to sit on a sharp stick and twirl.
>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/23 12:02, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> if you had followed your email providers instructions, you
>>>>>>>>> wouldnt have created your own problems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> spam is floating score based. bulk/public/free/spamhost email
>>>>>>>>> providers have high scores to start. proper spf loweres it, lack of
>>>>>>>>> dkim
>>>>>>>>> raises it, lack of dmarc raises it, content cn raise it, all the IPs
>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>> mail chain can raise it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thats why youre responsible for doing your part to increase your
>>>>>>>>> deliverability. If you were sending a business correspondence you
>>>>>>>>> might go
>>>>>>>>> as far as sending it certified mail, becaus eyou want deliverability.
>>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>>> if you didnt go that far, you wouldnt put the correspondence in an
>>>>>>>>> envelope
>>>>>>>>> that looks like dish network advertising because it would be
>>>>>>>>> discarded as
>>>>>>>>> junk mail, you wouldnt put it an odd shaped envelope that can get
>>>>>>>>> stuck in
>>>>>>>>> the sorting machines, you wouldnt put phrase like "sperm burglar" on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> exterior, youd put it in a business class envelope with windows and
>>>>>>>>> clearly
>>>>>>>>> visible address marking, a proper return address, etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Weve been managing deliverability with these types of methods
>>>>>>>>> since before emails. and even that changed over time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 1:50 PM Jan-GAMs <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, since grnacres doesn't have dkim or dmarc records, they
>>>>>>>>>> should be getting bounced like the mail.com records too. I
>>>>>>>>>> don't have any control over the mail servers. I rent the service
>>>>>>>>>> "easymail" along with the domain name from easydns. You know, it
>>>>>>>>>> sounds to
>>>>>>>>>> me more like google is a terrorist organization stamping on the
>>>>>>>>>> competition
>>>>>>>>>> just because they can get away with it. They make shit up, and
>>>>>>>>>> terrorize
>>>>>>>>>> those whom they want to force into compliance with their made-up
>>>>>>>>>> bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>> Next they're going to be asking for money
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Where is the anti-trust people when you need them?
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/23 10:55, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> grnacres.net doesnt have dkim nor a dmarc record. Thats bad
>>>>>>>>>> domain deliverability practice, nothing to do with the mailhost
>>>>>>>>>> perse, but
>>>>>>>>>> if mail.com doesnt support dkim, its a trash mail host like
>>>>>>>>>> sherweb. Cant blame recipient mail servers when the root issue is the
>>>>>>>>>> sending server isnt current. Its like getting pissed that somebody
>>>>>>>>>> doesnt get communications you sent out by telegraph
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:49 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:b0d9:b0:8af:3519:ea1 with SMTP id
>>>>>>>>>>> bk25-20020a170906b0d900b008af35190ea1mr29983208ejb.57.1678462982507;
>>>>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1678462982; cv=none;
>>>>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> b=bJKHFyjF+9UzBXciF4y3cYBJwrgmwap9OQ3AsQpf2nOFXGkTbLP4C0qHnlLFHXPcA5
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TAdqmLZYourjPpwIUaAuOjrJO9npBlDZRwv5N/S7xI4iPV2aly79cft4VRXOcfmk7CA0
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> n0mVQfby5GZR1DD+W1UzAdSHRUH51Nn/V7ounZGXel07tvWfVO8Oso9xga3lPfnUACNp
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TcgZPJSw+qZN7TBryDh9Wu1NFoyTBlKOGbgmQ/kCB0sSolGD+JqNOny+m40Pwdqh40ZD
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> jfEM9U9v6Wc6ORTM1FaDpf5Lp9kw8+8gZwnpXwXqFX4mb8gxYt+hZCPJm+kDipw/lDr3
>>>>>>>>>>> bhLA==
>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
>>>>>>>>>>> d=google.com; s=arc-20160816;
>>>>>>>>>>> h=content-transfer-encoding:subject:from:content-language:to
>>>>>>>>>>> :user-agent:mime-version:date:message-id;
>>>>>>>>>>> bh=IehNk68dy6Xm43VADrOc3Wts/VQhOY9VIh8QjaijTk8=;
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> b=NyqdCYZBzsrNlw9g7CPu4CfeQy64PQOMwX8TEIFWlUxO7XScd6qJ5xAmPDrypL8w2e
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /h4c7ONmrtQsk65hcKCBSJxq4sztWtnPNbv9HZ2VBdC6R/JGcUovOQ5syUTVRAaGoGyg
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 6quG7biEF/Sud2xX/FBh1gMx50IFKJnscAlxCqvWnWzI5C01HgPhIT9hVh3Plz2YjWHQ
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hgdmHROdvAdaX6uEl3nz7l4ojOhValcTQDuIakI9ydlRN2QZT12hL1OWX71MpeoGvVMA
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> jmEKbqXHlTu8rWPYvmL0M3Nx0V+oWCnCINPPYL1Pxu0Ob575PZS4DBo1hQE7tozljWxT
>>>>>>>>>>> avNg==
>>>>>>>>>>> ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>>>>> spf=pass (google.com: domain of [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender)
>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>> Return-Path: <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca (mailout.easymail.ca.
>>>>>>>>>>> [64.68.200.34])
>>>>>>>>>>> by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id
>>>>>>>>>>> p5-20020a1709066a8500b008d490a104b2si49101ejr.523.2023.03.10.07.43.02
>>>>>>>>>>> for <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>> (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
>>>>>>>>>>> Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:43:02 -0800 (PST)
>>>>>>>>>>> Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender) client-ip=64.68.200.34;
>>>>>>>>>>> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com;
>>>>>>>>>>> spf=pass (google.com: domain of [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>> designates 64.68.200.34 as permitted sender)
>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>> Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by
>>>>>>>>>>> mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 738E268D1A for
>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:01 +0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>>> X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at emo09-pco.easydns.vpn
>>>>>>>>>>> Received: from mailout.easymail.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost
>>>>>>>>>>> (emo09-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with
>>>>>>>>>>> ESMTP id csxoJG_y5IgL for <[email protected]>; Fri, 10 Mar
>>>>>>>>>>> 2023 15:43:01 +0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>>> Received: from [192.168.2.100] (047-224-130-187.res.spectrum.com
>>>>>>>>>>> [47.224.130.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256
>>>>>>>>>>> (128/128 bits)
>>>>>>>>>>> key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)
>>>>>>>>>>> server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by
>>>>>>>>>>> mailout.easymail.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 03E3A68C4C for
>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]>; Fri, 10 Mar 2023 15:43:00 +0000 (UTC)
>>>>>>>>>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2023 07:42:59 -0800
>>>>>>>>>>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>>>>>>>>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0)
>>>>>>>>>>> Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.8.0
>>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>> Content-Language: en-US
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jan-GAMs <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: hellody
>>>>>>>>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>>>>>>>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:47 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> nope, this gmail account is standard free account.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Im probably special cause all my communications get routed
>>>>>>>>>>>> through the FBI servers for my online antics
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 12:33 PM Jan-GAMs <
>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was a test. Only the ones addressed to you went through.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The others tested, bounced. Your address is different somehow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned your gmail is a paid-for account, the others that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bounced were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the free-gmail type accounts one gets by logging into google.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The emails
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were sent from mail.com and from my own business accounts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The business ones went through and the mail.com ones bounced
>>>>>>>>>>>>> except for the one sent to you. I picked 4 gmail addresses and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sent them
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out, all of the ones sent from the mail.com got bounced
>>>>>>>>>>>>> except yours. What makes you so special?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/10/23 09:14, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> i got your spam emails this morning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 10, 2023 at 11:04 AM <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently nobody on gmail has noticed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Jan-GAMs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, March 10, 2023 10:32 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* [email protected]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All mail.com users cannot send you email. How many other's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are blocked as well? Oblivion, must be sweet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/9/23 20:14, Darin Steffl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gmail is the best. Been using them for our business since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012. Virtually no issues at all aside from a handful of short
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outages over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the last 11 years.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's hands off, costs very little, and I've NEVER needed to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contact them for support. We also use Google drive and their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office apps in the cloud. We don't store any files locally at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all. All
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> business docs are at Google and they're safe there and they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> handle the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backups.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't see any advantage to hosting local email on your own
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> server. It's not worth your time. My time is worth $550/hr
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roughly when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at net profit so spending even one hour a year trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manage or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fix my own email server would cost me more than what I pay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We're grandfathered in and think we get 10 free users for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gsuite and I pay to upgrade storage to 100gb on 2-3 users so we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pay less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than $60 a year to Google for everything. Dirt cheap and great
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peace mind.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is relating to our internal business use. For customer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email, we never offered it and never will. Just recommend a free
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gmail
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account and go live your best life not having to support email.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:47 PM Steve Jones <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> O365 handles SMTP relay for scanners and such really well, we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just dealt with it a bunch. authenticated IP. I dont scan to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flatbed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because the Edsel was before my time :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 1:03 PM Chuck McCown via AF <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I prefer to have it in house for the 10-20 email addresses it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serves for employees and other business email addresses. It is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way and we don’t have to worry about anything else. But for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reason
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the server hangs and needs to get rebooted, usually about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each day.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Google got difficult, especially for email chains and other
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things so we stopped using them some time ago. For example, our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> scanner
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stopped being able to send emails due to something gmail did.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 11:24 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How much is your time worth. The free internal server is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> costing you this. We are still using rackspace for subscriber
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mail and our
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office emails since its same domain and a pita to set up split
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> routing for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the mail. The cost of our mail is covered by the folks who have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> service but wanted to keep their email, we actually make a tidy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> profit to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cover any administrative stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for my business I use google. 6 bucks a month per user. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way I look at it is if im not making 6 bucks per guy a month I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have bigger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problems than my email. Im a nerd, 20 years ago dicking around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with email
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> servers would have been a blast. but now its like maintaining a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> battery
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> powered inverter just so i can still use my corded drill. I can,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work, its not that complicated, but its nonetheless a dumb waste
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dealing with hosting email servers is a total waste of any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> resources unless your monetizing it. too large an attack vector
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 10:18 AM Chuck McCown via AF <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is only for our own company email. No customers on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Tyson Burris
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 7:37 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Surgemail is exactly what I used. Seemed to be a good
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> product.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Tyson Burris, President*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Internet Communications Inc.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *739 Commerce Dr.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Franklin, IN 46131*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Office #* *317-738-0320 *
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Cell/Direct #* *317-412-1540 *
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Online: www.surfici.net <http://www.surfici.net>*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: ICI]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *What can ICI do for you?*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Broadband Wireless - PtP/PtMP Solutions - Mesh Wifi/Hotzones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - IP Cameras - Fiber - Towers - Infrastructure.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail is intended for the*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *addressee shown. It contains information that is*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *confidential and protected from disclosure. Any review,*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *dissemination or use of this transmission or its contents by*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *unauthorized organizations or individuals is strictly*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *prohibited.*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Steven
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kenney via AF
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 9, 2023 8:37 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* Steven Kenney <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Surgemail you could run 1000 customers on a raspberry pi! Not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> free though. Extremely granular configuration options.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 9, 2023 at 7:16 AM Adam Moffett <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We used Icewarp since 2004 without issues. At its peak we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had thousandth of accounts on it, but now just a handful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not free. And they went to per user licensing so it’s not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost effective for hosting anymore, but it’s reasonable for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> internal email.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From:* AF <[email protected]> on behalf of Chuck
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> McCown via AF <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 8, 2023 6:05:45 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *To:* [email protected] <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* Chuck McCown <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] mail servers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are having trouble with mailcow. Anything better out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there. It hangs all the time these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
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