The mob never went away, they just moved into government and unions. On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 1:24 PM Steve Jones <[email protected]> wrote:
> hah, ken said dicks, kens a cusser now > > I do remember a history of unions documentary on PBs before PBS was trash. > They talked about how you could tell who was a truck driver because many of > them had burns between their fingers. they would light a cigar/cigarette > and hold it in the fingers so if they did nod off 16 hours into the drive > it would hopefully burn down to their skin before they veered off the road > and wake them up. We definetly needed unions back then. We also need the > mob back to take crime over, at least they were principled. > > but anyhow, kens a cusser > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 12:21 PM Ken Hohhof <[email protected]> wrote: > >> The right to collective bargaining was established in 1935 and at that >> time it addressed a real problem. >> >> Big employers had all the power and could be real dicks. >> >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_union_busting_in_the_United_States >> >> In the intervening 90 years, unions have become greedy and corrupt >> despite union membership being at an all time low. >> >> So IMHO, the cure now is as bad as the disease. >> >> Not just the teamsters and longshoremen but teachers and police. >> >> Some of the skilled trades unions I think still serve a purpose with the >> apprentice and journeyman programs and as a place to hire skilled workers. >> >> Kind of like the UK and their guilds. >> >> >> >> My first regular job out of college was at a big GTE Automatic Electric >> (their equivalent of Western Electric) facility which was unionized. Every >> summer the union would go on strike for 2 weeks, workers would get paid out >> of the union strike fund and take a 2 week vacation. Meanwhile the company >> always stockpiled production in advance of the strike. One year they >> settled and there was no strike. Because of the excess inventory, the >> company then had a 2 week layoff. >> >> >> >> *From:* AF <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Robert >> *Sent:* Monday, November 3, 2025 11:59 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unions >> >> >> >> Wow that sounds like socialism... From Steve? >> >> On 11/3/25 9:47 AM, Steve Jones wrote: >> >> I always thought we could pretty easily do away with the need for >> unions in regard to pay. IRS already has all the financials, and im >> not condoning the IRS, i think it should be dismantled and the earth under >> it salted, but like a fresh inmate, at one point you gotta pick the beau >> that will treat you best. Pay should be scaled out, <15 an hour, your >> mandated a 50% profit share to your employees. under 25 an hour 25% and so >> on. This avoids mom and pops being put out of business by wage inflation, >> combat behemoths from getting superfly profits while their labor force >> suckles the government food stamp teat. Your place in the pecking order >> dictates your expense write offs. Id rather see, if we are going to rob >> businesses,its better to see the money going to the employees directly than >> to the IRS to hand to some NGO who wants to cut peruvian peckers off. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 11:35 AM Robert <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I read this as it could have happened just as easily at a straight >> bar. It's a reaction to unions. I grew up in the bay area. VERY anti >> union... Unions were a burden to progress. Good business didn't need >> unions. Not in SV. Too much upside available to workers without. Times >> change. People got more greedy. Work onus became huge. Rewards >> narrowed. Pensions evaporated.. Unions are a tool. If workers want to >> unionize there is usually one of two things happening... Either a union >> sees opportunity or workers are being taken advantage of or maybe both. >> w/o knowing what was actually going on at the bar I don't think judgement >> on either side is right. >> >> On 11/3/25 9:19 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> As a boomer from redneck land, I had the predictable reactions to >> “queers” growing up. Later, qrown and working in the telecom industry and >> about the time that Matthew Shepherd was killed, I moved to a large city >> and started a formal education. I became friends with people “other” than >> the rednecks I had known my entire life. I had a good friend that was a >> music major and musician that worked in the entertainment industry. We >> were both of the same religious persuasion, he explained to me that the >> arts is full of those types of people and they are some of the gentlest and >> talented souls on the planet. That stared a long paradigm shift for me. I >> came to a place where I consider queer folk as the knots in the knotty pine >> paneling. They add character to life. So, the Q now is pretty much a >> normal accepted element of society for me. The other letters…. I am kind >> with Dave Chapelle on those. Who knows, maybe I will learn something about >> them too before I croak. >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AF <[email protected]> <[email protected]> *On >> Behalf Of *Steve Jones >> *Sent:* Monday, November 3, 2025 10:08 AM >> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <[email protected]> >> <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unions >> >> >> >> The left tends to eat their own without concern of consequence, just like >> how they created the hepatitis outbreak in california with their plastic >> bag ban. >> >> I cant imagine being a niche service provider like a gay bar, already >> operating on slim margins and probably paying higher insurance premiums or >> suffering increased out of pocket repair costs for vandalism getting wind >> that the employees were "organizing" thats a death sentence for any niche >> market. Any service based business with protesters outside is almost always >> doomed unless they had a decent buffer in the account, which most niche >> services do not. >> >> Im not a fan of the alternative lifestyle folks, but having a place where >> they can congregate with like minded folks is critical to avoid becoming >> victims of abuse by the neanderthals on my side of the aisle. As is the >> outcome of most leftist ideology, all they did was harm their own in the >> name of "progress". >> >> Hopefuly somebody opens up a blue oyster for them sooner than later >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 3, 2025 at 11:01 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I found myself writing a post on a gay bar facebook page this morning. >> >> The bar had closed due to the normal reasons small businesses close. >> >> Someone else tried to give it a go this summer. >> >> Their employes tried to unionize. Union supporters started to picket. >> Sales trickled to a halt. So the owner first fired all the employees (and >> broke a labor law) reinstated them and closed. >> >> >> >> Big outrage amongst the gay left. Or maybe just the left (of all >> predilections and proclivities). >> >> >> >> Check out how this huge business with its thousands of employees looks >> like from the outside: >> >> 102 South 600 West Salt Lake City. >> >> Ill bet they don’t have 10 employees at the most. >> >> >> >> I wrote both to the owner and to the folks posting on the bars FB page >> that unless you have risked everything to start a small business you have >> no standing. Unless you have lived with the daily burden of meeting the >> next payroll you do not understand. If you think a super tiny business >> like this should be subject to the burdens of a union shop, you would be >> happier in a socialist country. >> >> >> >> Here is the article in the SL Trib this morning: >> >> >> >> As historic LGBTQ+ bar closes in SLC, owner and union organizers hope to >> find ‘a path forward’ >> >> By BROCK MARCHANT, SHEILA MCCANN and RICK EGAN The Salt Lake Tribune >> >> The SunTrapp, Salt Lake City's iconic LGBTQ+ gathering spot, "will be >> closing," the bar announced on Instagram Friday — weeks after a group of >> employees asked the owner to recognize their proposed union. >> >> About 50 people were gathered outside the bar at 102 S. 600 West shortly >> after the post was published Friday night. A sign on its door said it was >> closed for a private party. >> >> In September, SunTrapp Workers United (SWU) asked bar owner Mary Peterson >> to voluntarily recognize the proposed union by Oct. 10, according to a news >> release. Peterson told The Salt Lake Tribune in a text at the time that her >> business "is too small. The SunTrapp will not be unionizing." >> >> But in the statement posted Friday night, she said, "I want to be clear >> that I support the rights of all employees to choose whether they want to >> join a union." >> >> The business was "committed to engaging" in the next step, which would >> have been a secret ballot election conducted by the National Labor >> Relations Board, she said. "Unfortunately, because of the government >> shutdown, the National Labor Relations Board was closed and the election >> process was stopped." >> >> The bar has tried to stay open during the shutdown, she said, but "sadly, >> the financial impact of consistent protests has made it impossible for us >> to remain open. As such, we will be closing the SunTrapp on October 31st, >> 2025." >> >> Natalie Jankowski, a lead bartender at The SunTrapp and a member of the >> SWU organizing committee, said she and other union members have not felt >> Peterson supported their rights as they have worked to unionize with >> Communications Workers of America (CWA) Local 7765. >> >> Two hours after she and other SunTrapp workers delivered a letter — which >> stated that the majority of staff had signed union authorization cards — to >> Peterson on Sep. 26, Peterson fired them, Jankowski said. She added that >> Peterson quickly reversed the decision and reinstated them. >> >> Still, believing Peterson had committed several unfair labor practices, >> Jankowski said she and other pro-union staff members went on strike on Oct. >> 3. >> >> Since then, she said, staff members and their supporters have picketed in >> front of the bar every Friday and Saturday night. Meanwhile, others were >> hired to fill the positions of the staffers on strike, according to >> Jankowski. >> >> For the last two weeks, Jankowski added, the workers' lawyer went back >> and forth with Peterson's attorney, unsuccessfully requesting a meeting. >> >> "She closed down instead of talking with us," Jankowski said. "She had >> every opportunity to do that." >> >> Jankowski said she was with the group who had intended to picket Friday >> night when she learned the bar was closing. Around her, she said, some >> staff members shed tears. "It is profoundly sad," she said, "that our owner >> saw our love for this place as a threat." >> >> In her Instagram post, Peterson said she's "not certain" what a path >> forward looks like for SunTrapp, though she is hopeful for one. >> >> Under Utah law, a bar must notify the Utah Department of Alcoholic >> Beverage Services if the owners plan to close for more than 10 days, or it >> may forfeit its license. The bar owner can apply for an extension to be >> closed longer (for remodeling or after a fire, for example), but for the >> deadline to be extended, the DABS commissioners must approve the >> application. >> >> Derek Petersen, who said he was a former administrative assistant and >> bartender at SunTrapp and now helps with SWU, was with the crowd outside >> the bar Friday night. He had read Friday's Instagram post that said the bar >> was closing, he said, "instead of sitting down with the union and with >> queer workers. I think that's just a big disappointment for the queer >> community. They deserve and the workers deserve some kind of conversation." >> >> Others in the community have defended Peterson, who reopened the bar last >> year after a previous owner closed it. Peterson posted her own video >> statement on Facebook earlier this month, where she said the bar was in >> danger of closing. She acknowledged firing and then rehiring workers after >> receiving the SWU letter, saying she had been "ignorant" of the laws >> protecting unionization activities. >> >> On its Instagram account two weeks ago, SWU noted: "We do not want the >> bar to close. All we want is to collaborate with ownership on a better, >> safer Suntrapp!" Posts on the account detail the safety measures and >> workplace changes its members requested. >> >> "The reason we unionized was not to do a takeover, was not to ruin the >> bar, was not to close down the bar," Jankowski said. "We wanted to unionize >> to save and preserve the bar." >> >> The employees hope the bar reopens, she said. The SunTrapp is not just a >> second home to many LGBTQ+ people, but also to many staff members, she >> said, who often hang out there even when they are not working. >> >> "We want to ensure its longevity, and we want to create policies and >> rules and safety policies that really just secure the future of that bar," >> Jankowski had told the Tribune in September, "because all of the staff >> loves it so much, and so do the customers." >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> AF mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >> > -- > AF mailing list > [email protected] > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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