There's a thread on NANOG now about the IP-Echelon guys and the opinion generally is, "Fuck 'em". They can't be bothered to send them to the right e-mail address. That said, the most vocal are of the firm belief their noticed are SPAM and don't wish to take any action to have the destination address corrected.
----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" <[email protected]> To: "af" <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 12:12:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Take down notices/Copyright infringement notices.. The LAW says that as a conduit we are not legally responsible for infingement which occurs across our networks, as long as we meet some simple requirements, none of which require us to take any action in these notifications. Yes, anyone can be sued any time. But the reality is that these email notifications are defective on so many levels that taking any action based on them other than forwarding them onto their apparent recipient with a disclaimer attached could open you up to real liability. For instance, lending any validity to any claim made by a scammer pretending to be a copyright owner could be perceived by your customer as aiding and abetting in an illegal activity. This discussion needs to be about legal requirements and how to protect ourselves from claims. I personally feel the piracy going on is wrong, but quite frankly, the emails are allegations, not proof of activities. For example, I've seen notices come in for ip addresses which aren't possible to be the source because they are from a block we've never had active on our network. How can I trust these as anything but what they are... automated detection of a possible infringement which regularly contain errors. On Oct 14, 2015 3:02 AM, "Faisal Imtiaz" < [email protected] > wrote: Hi Forrest, All things aside..... the core basic boils down to the following:- First question: Do we agree that Sharing Copyright Content without the consent of the Copyright owner is against the law ? Second question: Do we have the resources, and the willingness to defend ourselves when named in a lawsuit related to DCMA violation ? (remember the law in the country allows anyone to be sued for anything, once you are named, then you have to defend yourself. Yes, the charges can be dismissed and thrown out of court, but you have to show up to court, and that costs time and money...) Depending how one answers the above two questions, the action required is pretty simple... If you answer the above two as YES, and NO. Then simply contact your customer and ask them remove the copyright content, which should be within your AUP. If you answer the above with NO and YES. Then simply discard the DCMA request. --------------- Are they going to come after you on every notice ? no...but they reserve the right to do so... The real question, in my opinion, is does an IS/NSP want to take the liability of inviting trouble to themselves or do they want to keep it at bay. This discussion kind of reminds me of the saying.... what is the difference between a recession and depression..... Recession is when you neighbor loses his job, and a depression is when one looses his own job. Of Course YMMV. Regards Faisal Imtiaz Snappy Internet & Telecom 7266 SW 48 Street Miami, FL 33155 Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: [email protected] <blockquote> From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)" < [email protected] > To: "af" < [email protected] > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 11:08:04 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Take down notices/Copyright infringement notices.. <blockquote> I'm going to reply here instead of picking on any reply. .. As far as I can tell there is absolutely no requirement under the law to forward these at all. But please talk to a lawyer. You have to have an AUP which provides for termination of repeat infringers, but it doesn't say that you have to terminate repeat alleged infringers. You need to decide whether you feel forwarding these on are a service you want to provide to your customers or not. I would guess you'd likely have more liability risk from one of your customers suing you for not passing these on (after they are sued themselves) than from the copyright holders which don't seem to have a leg to stand on in making a service provider forward these. I'd also be very careful when passing these on to avoid making a judgement or giving advice. Note that the above only applies to Internet connectivity and not to something like hosting as an example, which has different rules. Again, I'm not a lawyer so the advice above may be wrong, but it is based on various discussions over the years which ended up coming to this conclusion. On Oct 13, 2015 11:06 AM, "Peter Kranz" < [email protected] > wrote: <blockquote> Is there any legal requirement for an ISP to forward these notices to their customers? Peter Kranz www.UnwiredLtd.com Desk: 510-868-1614 x100 Mobile: 510-207-0000 [email protected] </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
