*So we have a MS-Access Frontend* jesus christ.
On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 6:41 AM, Stefan Englhardt <[email protected]> wrote: > We started at a time where there was no usable billing system on the > market. So we have to do this on our own. > > Still there is no good solution for us as we use debit advice to get the > money and we need german language ... > > We started with customers doing the payment on there own but this is very > very annoying. > > > > So we have a MS-Access Frontend with mysql backend and java programs to > get accounting data from routers and feed it into the database. Nameserver > configurations are feeded from the main database, telefony data is synced > with our telefony provider, Domainorders are automated, … > > > > Lot of work over the years but found no product which does all what we > want/need. > > > > > > *Von:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *Im Auftrag von *Josh Baird > *Gesendet:* Freitag, 11. Dezember 2015 13:27 > *An:* [email protected] > *Betreff:* Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!! > > > > Yep, very well said. > > > > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 12:19 AM, Eric Kuhnke <[email protected]> > wrote: > > a huge number of people on this list seem to be absolutely determined to > reinvent the wheel for things like billing systems. there is nothing about > a WISP that makes a billing system particularly different than what any > major ISP needs. > > what's wrong with whmcs and its myriad of different available payment > processors? you pay something like $20/month total. > > it's amazing that companies with anywhere from 100 to 3000 subscribers > think they need to create from scratch a new billing system that meets > needs which have not been previously resolved in billing software used by > ISPs with 20,000 , 50,000 or 400,000 customers. Just because you do > wireless last mile PtMP with radios and not ADSL2+/VDSL2 or DOCSIS2/DOCSIS3 > cable does not mean that your billing and provisioning system should be any > different. > > this is exactly like people who want to stick to THE DUDE and mikrotik > based proprietary monitoring software that only runs on windows. You > seriously think large ISPs with 50,000 customers are using that stuff? > Look at OpenNMS and similar software that is under active development for > use by major backbone operators. You want something special? Develop a > plugin for opennms, don't marry yourself to a vendor specific monitoring > software like the dude. > > It is always the singlehomed small customer ISP that thinks its needs are > so wildly different than the major operators. The small guys who wouldn't > know an IX peering fabric from a potato want to reinvent the wheel. *We're > special* so we need this weird email software that somehow meets our > special needs, we're too good to run postfix and dovecot like a normal ISP. > > > > stop and consider for a moment that if you need to reinvent the wheel to > meet the needs of your special messed up business process, you have: > > a) created an unsustainable unscaleable business that will never be able > to grow beyond your small local market. > > b) created something that no sane large ISP would want to acquire due to > the ridiculous number of man hours required to yank out your special-sauce > custom system and replace it with industry standard monitoring, billing and > infrastructure systems. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 9:01 AM, SmarterBroadband < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Brett > > > > Take a look at K-Billing.com > > > > It costs $99 one time. No more to pay. Runs on a PC. Works with many > merchants. We have used it for our WISP billing system for close to 10 > years. > > > > Should do what you want. Easy and works. Just billing, nothing else. > > > > We are close to 2,000 customers now and moving to PowerCode. > > > > Adam > > > > *From:* Af [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Brett A Mansfield > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 09, 2015 2:03 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!! > > > > It makes perfect sense to not pay a minimum monthly fee for software that > so sold. If you're managing it all of the time then yes, that makes sense > to pay monthly. My issue isn't with paying for a product or with a monthly > cost. My issue is with charging a per sub AND a minimum monthly cost. My > per sub doesn't ever come close to the minimum monthly cost for pretty much > anyone. > > > > I did say it's break even, I didn't say it's a business. It's break even > IF I'm the only one to use it. It will be profitable if anyone uses it, > though the profit will be low. I'm not doing this to start a business. I'm > doing this so that people with fewer than 100 customers have an easy to > deploy, and easy and cheap to use option. That is it. I never said that > those of you with larger solutions are doing anything wrong or that you > have poor products. I don't agree with that model, but if I had 300+ > customers I could completely see a use case for those products like > powercode, wispmon, platypus, etc. But for me and most WISPs with fewer > than 100 customers, those solutions make zero sense. > > > Thank you, > > Brett A Mansfield > > > On Dec 9, 2015, at 2:49 PM, Josh Luthman <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Because if you're making software that you sell and manage a one time fee > doesn't work. > > You're wanting to make a product that breaks even. That simply makes no > business case. > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > On Dec 9, 2015 4:44 PM, "Brett A Mansfield" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > The research I did was very extensive. Wispmon in particular has their > pricing right on their website (which I love by the way. I wish everyone > would). > > > > You say that billing is the most important part of my business. I > respectfully disagree. It is actually one of the least important. The > product I'm selling is by far the most important, and the customer service > is next. Billing only happens after the first two are met. > > > > You mentioned several other things: > > > > *"I'm curious to what other systems you have in place that handle things > like mapping, monitoring, FCC reporting, sales tracking, prospect > qualification, inventory management, ip management, work orders, trouble > tickets, scheduling, provisioning, automated suspension and payments, > reporting, and more in addition to billing?"* > > > > With the small size of my company this is all very easily managed with > simple (and free) spreadsheets. So this argument is irrelevant to me. When > I get to a size where it is no longer easily managed, then and only then > will I start to pay for a service that can provide that (it will not be > until then that my business can afford to pay for it). > > > > You then offer advice to pay for this stuff from the beginning. Not > everyone is going to model their business in the way you think or society > thinks it should be. My business model is very, very different from the > norm. It's people that deviate from the "accepted standard", the ones that > think outside the box, that tend to do really well. My idea of success and > my idea of what and how a business should operate are not the same as > yours. > > > > Billing is something that should not be this difficult and expensive. Why > should I pay 5% of my revenue to someone that does nearly nothing??? If I > take what wispmon charges, add that to what it cost me to run a payment, > and then take out my operating costs, the likelihood of there being much > left is very low. The credit card companies already steal almost 3% before > I even pay the gateway company. Why are there so many different people > involved to make is to I can collect $45 from my customer? > > > > I really like what stripe, swipe, and PayPal have done by basically taking > one of the people out of that. The only problem is that they aren't set up > well for monthly recurring payments. That is what I intend to close the gap > on. > > > > Anyone who charges by the sub or has a monthly minimum so high that it > isn't worth it does not have a business model I agree with. > > > > I had seriously considered wispmon, but quickly ruled them out as soon as > I realized that you charge more for BYO Merchant account. I already have a > merchant account and have no interest in paying $200 to sign up for a new > one I have no experience with, or pay en extra $0.30 per sub per month > because I want to use someone I already use and trust. > > > > Another problem with Wispmon is that the main website looks like it was > built by using someone's free template that was simply modified old using > basic HTML code. If that is the impression I get from the main website, > what kind of product could they possibly be giving me? Will it look good? > Will it be based on old code too? Will it be easy to use? Too many > questions right off the bat. I'm not at all saying that this is how it is, > just saying that perception is reality. My first impression wasn't good, so > that sets the tone for the rest. > > > > You then went on to give me unsolicited advice as if to tell me how to be > running my business. My question was not why I should or shouldn't do > something, it was simply what options are out there. I've asked this > question several times and have done very extensive research on several > products. I didn't go that deep into wispmon because of my very first > impressions. And now after the email you sent out I will never consider it > again in the future. > > > Thank you, > > Brett A Mansfield > > > On Dec 9, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Cameron Crum <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'm curious what your review consisted of? To my knowledge, you never > contacted us to ask any questions even after an offlist invitation. It > seems if you are going to the trouble of creating something new, you would > at least perform an exhaustive analysis meaning you are talking to someone > to ask questions. I understand you think that perhaps the most important > piece of your business should be free or close to it, but is that really > where you want to skimp? Having owned a wisp for 8 years starting in 2003 > and sold to JAB in 2010, and actually been where you think you are now, > when there really were few platforms available, I would have jumped at the > chance to pay under $1 (or maybe slightly more) per sub to have all the > capability that most of the current systems currently have. I'm curious to > what other systems you have in place that handle things like mapping, > monitoring, FCC reporting, sales tracking, prospect qualification, > inventory management, ip management, work orders, trouble tickets, > scheduling, provisioning, automated suspension and payments, reporting, and > more in addition to billing? If you are using separate systems for all of > these things, then it is probably costing you more than what you would pay > for a single platform which does all of these things. I know you say you > are small and if you are doing all of these things manually or with > multiple platforms, there will be a day when that won't scale and you will > either be killing yourself trying to keep up, or spending far more than you > think to make it all work. My advice would be to do a bit more real > research before you dig into rolling your own. Talk to people who have been > in your shoes and were adverse to spending money on a good system. I tell > people who are evaluating different systems, that even if they don't choose > us, choose one of the ones out there. If you are just getting started, it > is the best decision you will make. It is much easier to get in at the > beginning than to convert later. The hardest part of being a self-starting > entrepreneur is knowing when to let go of certain things and either pay > someone to do them, or pay to get them out of the way so you can get down > to growing your business. This I know for sure, as it is the hardest part > for me. > > > > Cameron > > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Brett A Mansfield < > [email protected]> wrote: > > To be clear, this will not be a standard in any way. It's just to fill a > need where I see one. Something for the little guys like myself. This will > not be a solution for those big customers since it will be limited to > billing/CRM. > > > > I'm not doing this for profit. I'm doing this on the side and the numbers > should make it break even. > > > > Eric, I really like that comic strip, it is exactly what I was thinking > when I thought of doing this. Haha. > > > > There is NOTHING on the market like it though. Something that works, that > is nearly free, that is for the very small guys where every single penny > counts. > > > > If nobody in the world uses this system but me, then I'll still feel it > was worth my time. My partners are volunteering their time and so am I, so > our cost will be very low to develop this. > > Thank you, > > Brett A Mansfield > > > On Dec 9, 2015, at 10:30 AM, Josh Luthman <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Good luck. It certainly has been tried before... > > > > > Josh Luthman > Office: 937-552-2340 > Direct: 937-552-2343 > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Brett A Mansfield < > [email protected]> wrote: > > So, after a lot of review of every billing solution I can find out there, > I've come to the conclusion that there is no good billing system. > Everything out there either requires you use their merchant, has a minimum > monthly cost, or isn't really designed for the ISP. Even the stuff that has > come out most recently isn't a good fit. > > > > For those of you who are smaller and don't want to pay a monthly minimum, > or want to use your choice of merchant, or don't want to pay a per user > charge, something new will be coming soon! > > > > I've spoken to a few proven software engineers in the financial side of > things and we are partnering up to develop a new ISP billing software. It > will be turnkey, very easy to use, and can be deployed either by you on > your servers, or can be hosted on ours. It will only handle > billing/invoicing and CRM/ticketing. Best of all, it's practically free! > > > > More details to come. I'll keep you posted when we have more info. > > Thank you, > > Brett A Mansfield > > > On Dec 7, 2015, at 5:58 PM, Mike Hammett <[email protected]> wrote: > > Welcome to 2014? > > > > ----- > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions > http://www.ics-il.com > > > > Midwest Internet Exchange > *http://www.midwest-ix.com* > > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Adam Moffett" <*[email protected]*> > *To: **[email protected]* > *Sent: *Monday, December 7, 2015 1:32:33 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!! > > Ubiquiti has a CRM? > > On 12/7/2015 2:27 PM, Brett A Mansfield wrote: > > It's funny you mentioned waveapps. That is what I started out with. It was > a disaster. And the fact they don't allow multiple email addresses for > recurring invoices was a major deal breaker for me. > > > > I've since moved to UBNTs airCRM. It is an excellent setup on paper, but > is seriously lacking currently and is very erratic. I need something solid, > secure, and that I don't have to worry about all the time. > > Thank you, > > Brett A Mansfield > > > On Dec 7, 2015, at 12:08 PM, Joshaven Mailing Lists <*[email protected]*> > wrote: > > Plat has excellent support > > > > In my opinion, the problems with plat are: > > 1) The user interface is a pain in the butt and generally discouraging. > > 2) The software depends on a Windows platform and even worse direct > database connections from the client. > > > > 1) In most places when you want to alter something like customer data you > have to click on the field to edit from a table and then go to the top to > make the change in something that is like an address bar… of course you can > get used to this but Plat is full of non-user friendly quirks like this. > It reminds me of what it feels like to go back and use Windows 95 or > Windows 3.1 when I am used to modern operating systems. The system feels > almost like directly editing a database except that the software does > enforce logical edits so it is not nearly as dangerous as direct database > minupulation. > > > > 2) If you want to run a good highly available platform then you will be > spending a lot on software licensing with Microsoft. What is the going > rate for a MSSQL cluster now of days? Of course you can throw this on old > rusty crusty in a closet and run the free version of MSSQL but we are > carriers not hacks right? Also you are depending on ODBC database > connections between your clients and the server. Opening direct database > connections to my billing server gives me the creeps even if it is only > open to a network under my administration. I’m a fan of local host db > access only except for database peers. I would really like to see ISP > billing software be web based using standard https protocols and having no > client side dependencies like odbc configurations and client executables. > Try using Plat on a tablet… I don’t want my billing platform holding back > my ability to creatively design my installation process… > > > > > > I feel like I am ragging on Plat… maybe I am a bit but I want to > underscore their support. They are truly exceptional to work with and you > can rely on their platform. Just don’t expect to enjoy using it. If you > like function over form then you may be a perfect match for Plat… I just > wish they would do some magic to address the above two complaints. > > > > My recommendation to them is to become database & OS agnostic (at least > MySQL or MSSQL and run on Apache) and to make the client interface be 100% > standards compliment browser based. I suspect if they don’t do this they > will find themselves with a EOL product in the next few years. > > > > Right now there are really good options emerging like WaveApps. Wave > offers free billing including credit card processing at fair rates. They > don’t fit perfectly with an ISP (yet) but they are promising an API which > means that a good solutions provider can crank out an integrations solution > with Wave for front end billing. I am also super excited to see what Sonar > has to offer. I hope their offer is solid and we have a glorious solution… > > > > > At any rate I am waiting with bated breath to see where this lands over > the next few months. > > > > Sincerely, > > Joshaven Potter > MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, UACA > Google Hangouts: *[email protected]* > Cell & SMS: *1-517-607-9370* > > *[email protected]* > > > > > > > > On Dec 7, 2015, at 9:47 AM, Chuck Hogg <*[email protected]*> wrote: > > > > I can setup Platypus for billing only in less than an hour, including > setting up plans/rates/services/importing customers. > > > Regards, > Chuck > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Josh Luthman < > *[email protected]*> wrote: > > That get's to be a little in depth and probably a loaded question...but I > know when we moved to Powercode the old team that wasn't very good had it > done in one afternoon. This was from Quickbooks. > > > > > Josh Luthman > Office: *937-552-2340* > Direct: *937-552-2343* > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 3:37 PM, Ken Hohhof <*[email protected]*> wrote: > > Are you including database conversion? Items, customers, current > balances, recurring billing, credit cards, etc. > > > > Then there’s setting up the online customer payment portal. Especially if > customers already had online accounts. And you need to hook it into your > merchant account, put your logo on it, test it, etc. > > > > > > *From:* *Josh Luthman* > > *Sent:* Saturday, December 05, 2015 2:24 PM > > *To:* *[email protected]* > > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!! > > > > I'm simply saying 2 days is a long time to setup a billing system. For > someone that wants it running "immediately" 2 days is a LONG time. > > > > > > Josh Luthman > Office: *937-552-2340* > Direct: *937-552-2343* > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 3:22 PM, Philip Rankin <*[email protected]*> > wrote: > > Hey, I'm not in this for an argument. I am just offering to help a guy > out if I can. I'll bow out of this conversation. > > On Dec 5, 2015 1:37 PM, "Josh Luthman" <*[email protected]*> > wrote: > > Two days??? Powercode takes like an hour. > > > > > Josh Luthman > Office: *937-552-2340* > Direct: *937-552-2343* > 1100 Wayne St > Suite 1337 > Troy, OH 45373 > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Philip Rankin <*[email protected]*> > wrote: > > Guys, I am still a major believer in Tucows Platypus. Brett, I could have > you up and running with Plat in under 2 days as long as you can answer > speed and pricing questions as I ask them. And all I would need is remote > access to a Windows 7 computer. Let me know if you are interested. Most > of the training can be done remotely in less than a day, too. > > > > On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:55 AM, Simon Westlake <*[email protected]*> > wrote: > > I think it is still pretty early on. > > > > On 12/4/2015 6:22 PM, Chuck Hogg wrote: > > So I guess it does that...lol. I wasn't really expecting it to be like > that. > > > > It's not very baked ? or am I missing something? > > > > Regards, > Chuck > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:07 PM, Chuck Hogg <*[email protected]*> wrote: > > I meant for the admin side? > > > > Regards, > Chuck > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <*[email protected]*> > wrote: > > Just guessing.... > > > > Drop down on top right, select signup/create account ! > > > > :) > > > > Faisal Imtiaz > Snappy Internet & Telecom > 7266 SW 48 Street > Miami, FL 33155 > Tel: *305 663 5518 x 232* > > Help-desk: *(305)663-5518* Option 2 or Email: *[email protected]* > > > ------------------------------ > > *From: *"Chuck Hogg" <*[email protected]*> > *To: **[email protected]* > *Sent: *Friday, December 4, 2015 4:25:07 PM > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Need new billing solution asap!!! > > Anyone know how to login to his demo? > > > > Regards, > Chuck > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 11:28 AM, Simon Westlake <*[email protected]*> > wrote: > > *https://github.com/spencerlambert/wisp-central-control* > > On 12/4/2015 10:08 AM, Jeremy wrote: > > Isn't Spencer Lambert's web front-end free? Last time I saw him at Animal > Farm he was touting it and said he would help with setup and customization > at a flat rate of $100/hr. He is located in Utah, also. If you want > something cheap or free that may be an option. It would probably be worth > contacting him. I recommend Powercode. > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 8:58 AM, Craig Schmaderer < > *[email protected]*> wrote: > > I've been looking at *https://www.whmcs.com/* > > I have a friend that uses it for his ventrillo voice business and it does > auto billing and ticketing and is cheap. I think you can get a hosted > solution if you don't want to install it. > > Craig schmaderer > Skywave Wireless, Inc. > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2015 at 7:41 AM -0800, "Brett A Mansfield" < > *[email protected]*> wrote: > > Here is what I've always said about quality, cheap and fast. > > > > You can only pick two. You will never have all three. > > > > For this I need fast and quality. Cheap is relative in this case. I don't > have a lot of customers so the $200/mo min that visp requires is about > $100-150 too much for me. I'm fine with a reasonable one time fee, but it > must be reasonable. > > > > I used to use waveapps to just invoice and then customers could pay using > the invoice. But if they didn't get the email or lost it, they couldn't pay > their bill. > > > > I appreciate everyone's input on this. I think I'm going with platypus and > pay someone to set it up. > > > > I like powercode, I just cannot justify the initial cost for my small size > operation. > > Thank you, > > Brett A Mansfield > > > On Dec 4, 2015, at 7:47 AM, Chris Fabien <*[email protected]*> wrote: > > Good, cheap, and fast? You know what they say about that. > > We are reasonably happy with Powercode. Few gripes but it has never double > or triple charged our customers. > > On Dec 4, 2015 1:35 AM, "Brett A Mansfield" < > *[email protected]*> wrote: > > I'm looking for a good billing solution that is cheap and I can have up in > running immediately. > > I've had far too many issues with my current billing system. > > I need something turnkey and cheap. My WISP is a fairly small operation. > > I am not willing to pay per sub, especially if there is a minimum like > visp. I don't want to buy any new hardware. I looked at platypus, but it > cannot be deployed easily or quickly. I looked at powercode, but I don't > want to buy any new hardware. > > Is there anything out there that might fit my needs? Or should I just go > back to manual invoicing with quickbooks? > > Thank you, > Brett A Mansfield > > > > > > -- > > Simon Westlake > > Skype: Simon_Sonar > > Email: *[email protected]* > > Phone: *(702) 447-1247* > > --------------------------- > > Sonar Software Inc > > The next generation of ISP billing and OSS > > *https://sonar.software* > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Simon Westlake > > Skype: Simon_Sonar > > Email: *[email protected]* > > Phone: *(702) 447-1247* > > --------------------------- > > Sonar Software Inc > > The next generation of ISP billing and OSS > > *https://sonar.software* > > > > > > -- > > Philip J. Rankin > > Wireless Telecommunications Services > PO Box 24 > Pittsburg, KS 66762 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > >
