Re: [AFMUG] WISP ethics

Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:36:11 -0700

I'm more on your side of the fence, Steve D. I would not advocate selling a used router unless it was marked as used and discounted accordingly.
I get the other side too, nobody made them buy the router. They could have gone to walmart and bought something for $40, and plugged it in themselves. The technician connecting it correctly for them and setting up WPA is worth something. Even so, if I did do that I would bill it differently. Maybe split the line item into a $20 router and $60 installation, or at least list it as "Router - fully installed" just to clarify the point. Or even give them the option: "$60 to install a router...you can buy this used one for $20 or this nice, high powered new one for $120." If they choose the cheapo at least I didn't guide them into it. 


I'm also 100% in agreement with Ken Hohhof.  If it's my choice I 
wouldn't sell a router at all...too many potential customer service 
issues.



------ Original Message ------
From: "Steve D" <[email protected]>
To: "af" <[email protected]>
Sent: 8/23/2016 12:22:31 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] WISP ethics


Did your feeble aunt who doesn't know the first thing about realty buy 
the house?  Do you think she felt ripped off after you the expert told 
her the house has termites and the golf course is actually a farm with 
the hay cut extra low?  If she knew about all that, then sure, not much 
else to be said.



Remember, this is a question about ethics.  It's not about whether you 
can make the sale, but whether you should.  It's a big grey area to be 
sure though and all comes down to what lets you sleep well at night.  
You go all the way to douche side of the equation and you end up cell 
mates with some guy named Bernie...


On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Travis Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:

Something is worth whatever someone will pay for it.


Eight years ago, contractors were building nice homes in a nice new 
area, next to a golf course. They would build it for $600k (total cost 
for everything) and then turn around and sell them for $1.2 - $1.4 
million. Were people getting screwed? I think so. Did they still buy 
them? Yes.


Travis


On 8/22/2016 8:01 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

This is not a WISP that competes with me in any way...


It's actually a family member's new last mile connection, where the 
bill looks like:


NRC
$several hundred dollars - CPE radio
$165 - new customer one time installation fee
$80 router purchase

MRC
$85 monthly for a reasonably high quota service


I think that the price disparity between the actual market value of 
the router ($11 to $15 on ebay with free shipping included in the 
price) and what they sold it for is so wide that it's just wrong.



I can see buying a $75 basic 802.11ac router and selling it for $100, 
or even $110...  But not this.




On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 6:23 PM, Trey Scarborough <[email protected]> 
wrote:

I agree if they are selling the router along with installing it for 
$80 and they are not selling it as a new router I don't see the 
problem. Its a $10 plus say $10 for shipping and $60 to install it. 
If that was geek squad the bill would probably come out to $300...



I agree if this is a competitor just sell a better faster router for 
less with install.


On 8/22/2016 8:07 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

If this is your competition, I encourage you to forget about it. 
Nothing

productive will come of it.



On Mon, Aug 22, 2016, 7:33 PM Josh Luthman 
<[email protected]

<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


    That doesn't really answer the questions though.  Sounds like 
the

    second one kinda...

    Josh Luthman
    Office: 937-552-2340
    Direct: 937-552-2343
    1100 Wayne St
    Suite 1337
    Troy, OH 45373


    On Aug 22, 2016 7:47 PM, "Eric Kuhnke" <[email protected]
    <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:


        A CPE radio was installed and aimed, ubnt PoE injector put 
in
        place, and the router connected to the LAN side of the 
PoE...


        The CPE radio installation was its own installation service

        charge and equipment fee separate from the $80 line item 
for the

        router.



        On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Josh Luthman
        <[email protected]
        <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

            If it's sold as new?  That's wrong.

            If it's sold as a service (go to house, install router,
            leave)?  That's fine.

            If it's sold as a used product?  That's fine.


            Josh Luthman
            Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:937-552-2340>
            Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:937-552-2343>
            1100 Wayne St
            Suite 1337
            Troy, OH 45373

            On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 6:57 PM, Eric Kuhnke

            <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> 
wrote:



                Many WISPs rent routers or sell home wifi routers 
to

                their customers.


                Some routers are used pulls from other customers, 
get

                factory defaulted and configured for new customers.

                Nothing wrong with this.

                If you saw a WISP that was taking used routers from

                customer pulls and re-selling them to another 
customer

                at $80/piece, and that router was this exact model:


                
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NETGEAR-WNR1000-WIRELESS-N-N150-WIRELESS-ROUTER-RANGEMAX-4-PORT-SWITCH-/171392676852?hash=item27e7ccb3f4:g:D8sAAOSwKPNTzDRY



                Would you consider it to be ethically questionable? 
I

                could not in good conscience sell such a feeble,
                obsolete $10 router for $80.


                This is not a 'rented' router, this was an actual
                purchase line item on a customer invoice.



































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