i.e. The end justifies the means... Yeah, never thought when I was young, innocent, and naive that I lived in that kinda country.. Always thought of that as how Nazi Germany came about... Now I'm just along for the ride, however short that may remain for me...

On 09/19/2016 04:53 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
Can't disagree about the theoretical world you mention.
If that world ever came to fruition, maybe humanity wouldn't be, by
default, as evil as it is.
In the mean time, I'm glad the horse I happen to be riding happens to be
the fastest one in the race, even if it does have colon cancer and a
recent castration.

On Sep 19, 2016 6:42 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com
<mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

    I could accept those statements as fact, but I'm less interested in
    living in a powerful nation than living in one I don't have to be
    ashamed of.
    Secrets to maintain operational security are important, but that's a
    short term thing; in some number of decades they become irrelevant.
    Keeping secrets because we know full well we're doing something
    wrong is....something else.  Narcissistic?
    ------ Original Message ------
    From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
    To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    Sent: 9/19/2016 12:58:35 PM
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Being a good citizen
    *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
    *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2016 10:52 AM
    *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Being a good citizen
    Anyone who believes that any powerful nation gets to be that way
    by protecting the sovereignty of its citizens is in very much need
    of a tighter helmet and an ice cream cone.
    Anyone who believes that any powerful nation gets to be that way
    by following the terms of international treaties when no one is
    looking needs fitted for said helmet.
    People are evil, and it takes evil men with good intentions to
    ensure that the evil does not become the dominate factor defining
    humanity in the public eye.
    He abused his acces, he is a traitor, he should meet his fate as
    such, let him be a martyr. No good deed goes unpunished, its just
    the way of humanity.
    On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 11:36 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
    <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

        Well, you’re jumping to a conclusion that no one cares.  I
        think it falls into the category of two wrongs don’t make a
        right.  Did he see a genuine problem?  Probably yes.  Did he
        take the appropriate action?  Probably not.  And if he was so
        sure what he did was right, why not stay, defend his actions,
        and face the consequences?  Running off to Russia doesn’t
        sound very heroic, and it’s hard to argue he needed to hand
        over as much stolen data as he did to foreign actors in order
        to make people believe his claims.
        Tommy Chong deserves more sympathy.
        *From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>
        *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2016 11:12 AM
        *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
        *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Being a good citizen
        I think what he did was great.  It's disappointing no one
        cares that our government is taking away rights.
        Josh Luthman
        Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:937-552-2340>
        Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:937-552-2343>
        1100 Wayne St
        Suite 1337
        Troy, OH 45373
        On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists
        <jeffl...@att.net <mailto:jeffl...@att.net>> wrote:

            Does it make sense that I hate what he did but I'm kinda
            glad he did it?

            Jeff Broadwick
            ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
            312-205-2519 <tel:312-205-2519> Office
            574-220-7826 <tel:574-220-7826> Cell

            On Sep 19, 2016, at 11:57 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm
            <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

            Down with Snowden
            On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 6:14 PM, Chuck McCown
            <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

                Yeah, I think Snowden is getting a whitewash courtesy
                of hollywood.
                *From:* George Skorup <mailto:geo...@cbcast.com>
                *Sent:* Sunday, September 18, 2016 4:43 PM
                *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
                *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Being a good citizen
                He signed a contract. If he saw things being done
                that he believed were against the constitution, then
                he should've went to his superiors and said that he
                cannot carry out his duties since he feels that they
                are unlawful. Then walked out, got a lawyer and said
                not a fucking thing about anything classified. He
                leaked info that our enemies used against us. He's a
                traitor, plain and simple. Not a hero. He deserves no
                pardon and no sympathy.

                I'm all for whistle blowing, standing up for the
                rights of the people and the spirit of the
                constitution and all that, but he went about it
                completely the wrong way. And look where it got him.

                On 9/18/2016 4:29 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
                Snowden “does not work for a Russian organization,
                yet is financially secure thanks to substantial
                savings from his years as a well-paid contractor and
                more recently numerous awards and speaking fees from
                around the world.”  3 years.  That’s a lot of
                savings, or he’s eating a lot of ramen noodles.
                I guess Vladimir could let him live there for free
                just to piss off the US.  And Russia has good
                hackers of their own (maybe Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear
                will get their own movies), so maybe they haven’t
                needed any help in the recent hacks.  Certainly
                Assange seems to be in bed with Pootie-Poot.
                *From:* Jaime Solorza
                *Sent:* Sunday, September 18, 2016 4:13 PM
                *To:* Animal Farm <mailto:af@afmug.com>
                *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Being a good citizen

                You mean Trumpass, Trumpfuck,  Trumpshit... worse
                than calling one a chickenshit

                On Sep 18, 2016 3:08 PM, "Ken Hohhof"
                <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

                    Pled guilty and spent 9 months in federal prison
                    for selling bongs over the Internet.  Unlike a
                    certain person who fled to Russia rather than
                    defend his actions in court, but wants a pardon
                    to return.  I thought you had to be convicted
                    first to be pardoned, but then I remembered
                    Gerald Ford preemptively pardoned Richard Nixon.
                    Obama might pardon Chong.  Snowden will have to
                    hope for a pardon from President Trumputin.
                    *From:* Jaime Solorza
                    *Sent:* Sunday, September 18, 2016 3:51 PM
                    *To:* Animal Farm <mailto:af@afmug.com>
                    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Being a good citizen

                    Cough cough orale. Righteous cause ese

                    On Sep 18, 2016 2:01 PM, "Chuck McCown"
                    <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

                        We the People

                        Thank you for submitting your signature to
                        the We the People petition "Pardon Tommy
                        Chong" via WhiteHouse.gov

                        *Petition Title: Pardon Tommy Chong*

                        This Petition is written to request that
                        Tommy Chong be granted a full Presidential
                        Pardon. We believe this to be fair as first
                        the nature of the offense was neither
                        violent nor the cause of any harm to any
                        person or place. Second, we feel this was
                        done to make an example of Tommy Chong
                        during a period when unfettered persecution
                        took place against those who sought to give
                        adults the choice of whether they wanted to
                        use Cannabis products on a voluntary basis
                        either for medical purposes or
                        recreationally which is now the law in many
                        States and is permissible under the law in
                        other States.
                        We respectfully request that Tommy Chong be
                        granted a full Presidential Pardon and
                        submit the signatures of the signees below
                        who agree this to be a fair and just act on
                        their behalf.

            If you only see yourself as part of the team but you
            don't see your team as part of yourself you have already
            failed as part of the team.

    If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see
    your team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of
    the team.

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