I don’t know that it’s a false dilemma - I mentioned it with the caveat that 
it’s probably not politically possible even if it was advisable (and I don’t 
believe it is).

The obvious model is the electric distribution deregulation that has occurred 
in a lot of states where the distribution and generation components are 
separate entities.  

Mark



> On Feb 1, 2017, at 5:22 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> 
> Mark,
> 
> I believe you have presented a false dilemma. Those are not the only options. 
> 
> The best option would be to have an open access dark fiber network with cost 
> plus pricing, averaged over the whole network. 
> 
> With this model it doesn't matter much who does the building, who does the 
> financing or for that matter even who does the owning. 
> 
> This would also keep true competition alive and flourishing on the level that 
> matters, the offering of Internet and other services. 
> 
> It is inefficient to build competing infrastructures and temporary solutions. 
> 
> Now, I don't expect the rational thing to be done, but, hey, a man can dream. 
> 
> Jared
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, February 01, 2017 Mark Radabaugh wrote:
> 
> Adam,
>  
>  
> So 2 questions for you (or anyone)…
>  
> Do you think the government should fund private companies to build fiber 
> everywhere because 10Mb won’t be sufficient for the “need”, not the “want”.   
> Do we as a country spend a lot of public money to effectively create a 
> monopoly fiber carrier in every region?   Or is it better to make sure 
> everyone has access to 10Mb and allow the free market to compete for the 
> “want”?   To me the former creates a monopoly with government money with all 
> of it’s inefficiencies  and long term harm to the consumer.    The latter 
> takes longer but has a better chance of staying competitive.
>  
> The ‘monopoly last mile provider’ model is probably not going to happen in 
> the US.  While it could I don’t see any current political chance of that 
> happening.
>  
> Given the major providers as well as the wanna-be’s like Google are giving up 
> on FTTH builds in favor of fiber -> 5G builds now, why should the FCC still 
> be pushing the FTTX only model?    
>  
> Given 5G is little more than hype at this point I have my doubts that the 
> model will actually work, but that’s another story.
>  
> I’m asking these questions in the WISPA FCC chair capacity because I want to 
> understand what our policy should be, keeping in mind that government funding 
> schemes are rarely friendly to small companies and often result in 
> significant harm.
>  
> As Amplex - I’m building fiber to towers, FTTH on the routes to the towers 
> and in wooded areas I can’t otherwise serve, and creating micro pops along 
> the way on the fiber routes.   Personally I think that is the winning answer 
> for the future - but that’s just me.
>  
> Mark
>   
> 
> On Feb 1, 2017, at 2:55 PM, Adam Moffett 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]> wrote: 
> 
> I agree with you on the need.  In my mind, nobody "needs" more than 1meg.  
> 10meg generally makes them happy and not have too fuss about how they're 
> using it (for now).  They "want" 25-100 meg for all their entertainment.
>  
> Put another way:  I might only "need" 10 amps of electrical capacity as long 
> as I'm careful about how I'm using it, but my 200 amp service makes me a 
> happy and contented consumer for the foreseeable future.
>  
> Regardless of what anyone "needs", fiber is going to end up the standard 
> delivery mechanism for data because it will meet the need of today and the 
> need of next year and the next 50 years.  If you build anything else, then in 
> the long run you'll have people still clamoring for improvement and it will 
> end up being replaced.  
>  
> There's nothing wrong with meeting the immediate need with wireless, and you 
> can absolutely make money doing it, but the long term and permanent answer is 
> going to be fiber.  So if you want to stay relevant in the future you'll be 
> looking at how to get into that game whether it's with private funding or 
> government subsidy.
>  
> This is a WISP, we're a WISPA member, and I want WISP's to succeed.....but 
> facts is facts.
>  
> -Adam
>  
>  
>  
>  
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Mark Radabaugh" <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]>
> To: [email protected][mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: 2/1/2017 2:11:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>  
> 
> Chuck,
>  
> Explain why we would have to bury fiber for that customer when the current 
> standard for ‘served’ for Internet is 10Mbps which is easily done with 
> wireless, and “Advanced Broadband” is 25/3Mb.    I still think there is a 
> very valid argument that 10Mbps is more than sufficient for the services that 
> the government should be guaranteeing (phone, telemedicine, education).  25/3 
> is more about entertainment than anything else and I don’t see where this is 
> a taxpayer obligation.   I want Broadway shows in my little town too - but I 
> don’t expect the government to fund them.
>  
> The major carriers are moving away from landlines as fast as they can and are 
> really looking to replace all last mile with wireless if they can make it 
> work (and they think they can).  I don’t think it will be long until getting 
> traditional landline service in the city is no longer an option - why would 
> we still be forcing this in rural areas?
>  
> The other issue is the cash cow that funded USF for years (intrastate phone 
> revenue) is rapidly diminishing and will finish it's spiral of death soon 
> unless the contribution base is expanded to broadband.  
>  
> Mark 
> 
> Mark Radabaugh
> WISPA FCC Committee Chair
> [email protected][mailto:[email protected]]
> 419-261-5996[tel:419-261-5996] 
> 
> On Feb 1, 2017, at 12:38 PM, Chuck McCown 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]> wrote: 
> 
> Depends on what you call rural.  I have served areas with perhaps 1 house 
> every 5 miles.  You are not going to find a wisp willing to build out in 
> areas like that.  I plowed 20 miles of fiber for one single house.  
> 
>  
> 
> From: That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2017 10:34 AM
> To: [email protected][mailto:[email protected]]
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>  
> 
> If WISPA does their job well, small business can more effectively service the 
> rural markets than the telcos, for alot less money
> 
>  
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Jason McKemie 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]> 
> wrote:You think? It seems like the Republicans are in the pocket of big 
> telco, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
> 
> On Wednesday, February 1, 2017, That One Guy /sarcasm 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]> wrote:
> i think that bank account may be closed very soon
> 
>  
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Mark Radabaugh 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]> wrote:
> 
> Lipstick on a pig.   The copper in still rotting in the ground and the only 
> approved Centurylink fix appears to be the upgrade from black to orange trash 
> bags.   Except when those are out of stock. 
>  
> Centurylink will be back to the FCC shortly crying about how the need more 
> support money to fix the plant.  The only question is if they do it this year 
> or next.
> 
>  
> 
> Mark Radabaugh
> WISPA FCC Committee Chair
> [email protected][mailto:[email protected]]
> 419-261-5996[tel:419-261-5996]
> 
>  
> 
> On Feb 1, 2017, at 8:15 AM, Mike Hammett 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]> wrote:
>  
> 
> They couldn't before either, but they didn't give a shit.
>  
> 
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions[http://www.ics-il.com/]
> [https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL][https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb][https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions][https://twitter.com/ICSIL]
> Midwest Internet Exchange[http://www.midwest-ix.com/]
> [https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix][https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange][https://twitter.com/mdwestix]
> The Brothers WISP[http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/]
> [https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp][https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg]
> 
> 
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> From: "Darin Steffl" <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]>
> To: [email protected][mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 11:49:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
>  
> These should all be fiber fed. Any new DSLAM's with CAF funding are very 
> likely fiber fed. They just can't support the bandwidth requirements with 
> only bonded T1's anymore. 
> 
>  
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 11:34 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]> wrote:
> One would suspect a calix e7-2 or e7-20 (2Tbps backplane, 100Gbps link to 
> each line card). I don't think you can even feed those by anything short of 
> at least a gig ethernet circuit. I never really tried on any of the E7-2s 
> I've used in the past though :)
> 
>  
> On Jan 31, 2017 11:29 PM, "Forrest Christian (List Account)" 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]> wrote:
> 
> Out of curiosity, do  you know how are they feeding these shelves?   
>  I know that in at least one case a couple of years ago, Qwest was feeding an 
> entire neighborhood on I think 4 T1's.   
> 
>  
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 5:06 PM, Darin Steffl 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]> wrote:
> Exactly. Calix VDSL2 Remote DSLAM. These are the result of CAF funding from 
> Govt. to provide minimum 10/1 Mbps speeds to the census blocks they took 
> funding for. 
>  
> If Centurylink had crappy or no DSL in these areas before, expect them to be 
> able to offer somewhat functional to excellent DSL speeds to customers in 
> range of these remote DSLAMs. For really close customers, they may see up to 
> 40/1 Mbps speeds.
> 
>  
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Carl Peterson 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]>wrote:
> As someone already said, its clearly and E3.  
> https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html[https://www.calix.com/systems/e-series/e3-e5-dsl.html]
> 
>  
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 4:18 PM, George Skorup 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]>wrote:Regen would 
> be my guess.
> 
> On 1/31/2017 2:45 PM, Tim Reichhart wrote:it got fiber ran into it for remote 
> dslam to provide customers vdsl2 along that route.
> 
> Tim
> 
> -----Original Message-----From: "Carl Peterson" 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]>
> To: [email protected][mailto:[email protected]]
> Date: 01/31/17 03:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CenturyLink installing these
> 
> Calix.  I'd guess G.Fast
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
>  On Jan 31, 2017, at 3:07 PM, Josh Corson 
> <[email protected][mailto:[email protected]]> wrote:
>  
> 
> Does anyone know what these are? They are popping up on fairly rural
> areas of our coverage areas and on the state highways.
> 
> Thanks<mime-attachment.txt>
> <image1.JPG> 
>  -- 
> 
> Carl Peterson
> PORT NETWORKS
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> (410) 637-3707[tel:(410) 637-3707]  
>  -- 
> 
> Darin Steffl 
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com[http://www.mnwifi.com/]
> 507-634-WiFi
> [http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi] Like us on 
> Facebook[http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi]
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Forrest Christian CEO, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.
> Tel: 406-449-3345[tel:406-449-3345] | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, 
> MT [email protected][mailto:[email protected]] | 
> http://www.packetflux.com[http://www.packetflux.com/]
> [http://www.linkedin.com/in/fwchristian] [http://facebook.com/packetflux] 
> [http://twitter.com/@packetflux]
>  
>  -- 
> 
> Darin Steffl 
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com[http://www.mnwifi.com/]
> 507-634-WiFi
> [http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi] Like us on 
> Facebook[http://www.facebook.com/minnesotawifi]
>  
>   
>  -- 
> 
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team. 
>  -- 
> 
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> 

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