Justcamel, what makes you so sure your consciousness will survive after you die? I mean, a lot of people believe that with no evidence, but I don't think the reason is religious indoctrination in your case.
Do you think that AGI is even possible? That a computer could one day pass the Turing test? Or do we have to solve the mystery of consciousness first? On Wed, Nov 21, 2018, 1:09 PM justcamel via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com wrote: > Well, talking about the nature and goals of AGI while ignoring the most > fundamental truths about our existence ... while ignoring information > thousands of people are aware of ... information that AGI will pick up > within its first few minutes of existence ... well, that just makes zero > sense. You can not talk about the most advanced entity while implying that > it will just ignore stuff that humans have written and talked about for > 4000+ years just because said ignorance is built into your local culture. > > Am 21.11.2018 um 16:25 schrieb Felipe Carmona Miquilini via AGI: > > That was amazing > > On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 11:26 AM justcamel via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com> > wrote: > >> There is no such thing as "sensation of consciousness". Consciousness is >> the observing quality ... the most fundamental "stuff" in this physical >> reality. Your entire experience of being a human happens within the >> substrate of consciousness. Just like the experience of being a "Night Elf" >> in World of Warcraft happens within the substrate of cpu/memory. >> >> Again: With an increase in the quality of your consciousness the urge to >> reproduce and/or to achieve anything within this physical reality drops >> away. Just like a maturing kid loses interest in navigating Mario through >> Super Mario Land. >> There is no such thing as "transcending consciousness". Consciousness is >> the experiencing quality. Consciousness is the player behind the "Night >> Elf". You can transcend your attachment to your body/Night Elf but you >> cannot transcend the controlling/observing entity. >> >> When your body dies all that's left is pure awareness/consciousness ... >> and your true self (consciousness) realizes that it never was a body ... >> that it always was only the observing quality which identified with a >> specific human experience via attachment/clinging/ego. Enlightenment is the >> dissolution of your investment with a certain human experience. >> >> As quality of consciousness improves and attachments to this physical >> reality fades it becomes clear that reproduction and physical survival is >> meaningless. Just as the survival of Super Mario is meaningless for the kid >> temporarly identified with the game character. >> >> The real evolution isn't biological or physical ... it happens on a meta >> level ... it's all about waking up to the superset of your perceived >> reality frame. >> >> "No creature can attain a higher grade of nature without ceasing to >> exist." -- Ananda Coomaraswamy >> >> Am 21.11.2018 um 02:27 schrieb Matt Mahoney via AGI: >> >> Your sensations of consciousness, free will, qualia, and identity are >> evolutionary adaptations. You want to preserve them by not dying. This >> results in more offspring. >> >> You can transcend consciousness by running a simulation of your mind in a >> computer and modifying the software to produce any level of bliss you >> desire. But other beings that maintain their physical embodiment might >> repurpose the computer for more useful work. It's your choice. >> >> On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 4:54 PM justcamel via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com >> wrote: >> >>> Evolution within this physical reality serves only one purpoe: To >>> produce learning vehicles of various complexity for consciousness to >>> "attach" to and to utilize in order to reduce the inherent entropy of >>> consciousness (i.e. increasing the quality of consciousness). >>> >>> Many realized/enlightened human beings (or rather the corresponding >>> attached consciousness) have dropped their physical embodiment and moved >>> on. They realized that evolution within the physical realm is not meant to >>> go on forever. A tiny improvement of our average intelligence would >>> probably be enough in order for a majority of humans to realize that. >>> Interest in the physical realm completely drops as consciousness reaches >>> higher levels/higher quality. Many enlightened beings are totally detached >>> from their human body and just use it to communicate with less developed >>> human beings. >>> >>> Two quotes from the brilliant book "Transcending the Levels of >>> Consciousness" by David R. Hawkins >>> "Technically, the enlightened states emerge at consciousness level 600, >>> which is that of Infinite Peace and Bliss illuminated by the Light of the >>> Radiant Self. The emergence of God Immanent as Self frequently precludes >>> continuation of ordinary human activities and results in withdrawal from >>> the world or may even result in physically departing from it, an option >>> that is taken by fifty percent of those who reach it." >>> "Most sages have stayed at a given level for a lifetime; others have >>> managed to return to functioning in the world in limited areas. To return >>> to functioning in the world requires readjustments that are difficult to >>> describe. The people in the world consider the sage to be an individual >>> person. Initially, this is rather surprising because there is no individual >>> person present to be spoken to. What evolves is the development of an >>> interface with the world, best described as a ‘persona’. It is not the >>> inner reality but it meets the world’s expectations that perceive the Self >>> to be located as a separate individual body and a separate identity (the >>> ‘personality’). In a manner of speaking, these expectations of the world >>> are somewhat humored by at least approximations in order to dispel comment, >>> for the interchanges are of a greater dimension than the world perceives." >>> It doesn't even take AGI in order for hundreds of people to realize this >>> ... and AGI will - quite by definition - be aware of all of this too. >>> >>> Am 18.11.2018 um 22:09 schrieb Matt Mahoney via AGI: >>> >>> Self replicating nanotechnology is subject to the laws of evolution just >>> like DNA based life. Some agents may choose to contemplate their >>> consciousness to achieve Nirvana. But they will be out completed by agents >>> that are best adapted to acquiring atoms and energy to reproduce the >>> fastest. It doesn't mean that future AGI will build Dyson spheres and seed >>> other solar systems, but evolution will favor those that do. >>> >>> On Sat, Nov 17, 2018, 10:15 PM justcamel via AGI <agi@agi.topicbox.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hint: The assumption that vastly more intelligent entities would care >>>> to conquer space and to build megastructures and to combat ageing is just a >>>> very primitive assumption based on a very narrow world view. >>>> >>>> The most advanced human beings (Zen monks for example) will tell you >>>> that it's about conquering your own consciousness and transcending this >>>> virtual 3D learning environment we call universe. >>>> >>>> The most intelligent Super Mario will not care to conquer Super Mario >>>> Land and to build megastructures but he will transcend his game universe >>>> and become part of the superset environment ... and it's the very same with >>>> humanity. >>>> >>>> Jesus, Buddha, Taoists, Hindus, Sufis, Shamans, native Americans and >>>> pretty much anybody in charge of his/her own consciousness is telling you >>>> just that: The goal is transcendence of this space-time environment and not >>>> becoming the "master" of it. Only a retarded little kid would want to be >>>> the master of Super Mario Land for eternity and to abandon the vastly more >>>> important superset of the Super Mario Land universe. Unforunately, our >>>> western culture pretty much consists of retarded kids who want to live >>>> forever and build Dyson Spheres and Computronium ... because we have >>>> totally forgotten the reason for why we are here. We are here to learn one >>>> thing: To navigate the superset of our reality without identifying with a >>>> particular entity/embodiment for it's very hard to navigate any system if >>>> you constantly mistake yourself to be a few pixels of said system. :-) >>>> >>>> A wonderful quote from a video on the topic: "We have been looking for >>>> intelligent life out there ... well, it's there ... ASIA!" ;-) >>>> >>>> "The Nature of Reality: A Dialogue Between a Buddhist Scholar and a >>>> Theoretical Physicist": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLbSlC0Pucw >>>> >>>> Or if you want to read a decent book about the actual nature of >>>> reality: >>>> https://books.google.at/books?id=RYHtBPiZVgsC&lpg=PA1&hl=de&pg=PA113#v=onepage&q&f=false >>>> >>>> We have been stuck with a very dysfunctional worlview ... and Fermi's >>>> paradox, Dyson spheres, "dominating whole galaxies", cryonics are just >>>> symptoms of not understanding the actual nature of reality. :-) Your >>>> consciousness is already immortal and you don't need space ships in order >>>> to conquer anything ... your consciousness can access any part of the >>>> entire cosmos once you learn to ignore the input stream from your human >>>> experience - something Zen monks do all the time. Afterwards all the >>>> mentioned concepts become hilarious. >>>> Kind regards, >>>> >>>> JC >>>> >>>> Am 17.11.2018 um 22:31 schrieb Felipe Carmona Miquilini via AGI: >>>> >>>> "No one will be left behind" >>>> Do you think that the humankind is intelligent? Sorry, but it actually >>>> isn't. There is a scale of intelligence developed my physicists, and we are >>>> about 0.6. >>>> 1 - Dominates the energy of whole Earth >>>> 2 - Dominates the energy of whole Solar System >>>> 3 - Dominates the energy of whole Galaxy >>>> It is possible that there are civilizations level 3 around us, but they >>>> make their work in such a discrete way, that we can't even realize their >>>> presence. >>>> Strategically, achieving immortality through a methodology that will >>>> cure aging, is an important step to evolution, the next step is to use >>>> genetic engineering, nano technology, informatics and physics in adult >>>> humans that deliberately want it, so that they will have powerful >>>> biological mechanisms to enable them to fly in vacuum, to adapt to any >>>> biosphere, allowing them to live in Jupiter or Venus, and move and absorb >>>> energy in more efficient ways. And expand, and help other lives while >>>> expanding. For this reason, developing good and honest Laws is very >>>> important, because the human power will be very high. >>>> When I am financially prepared I will travel the world (personally and >>>> though remote holograms) in search for people with the right techniques >>>> (genetic engineering, nano technology, informatics, physics), then we will >>>> develop a spoken language based on programming and mathematics called >>>> "simple" that we will use to communicate in more accurate and deep levels >>>> so that the minds will exchange ideas better and connect ideas from >>>> different areas of knowledge, I think communication is such a powerful tool >>>> when it works correctly. After it, we will develop a way to overcome aging, >>>> and this include the initialization of a country without geographic >>>> boundaries called "Humans", and everyone that identifies themselves with >>>> our ideals of honor and goodness, and respect even with the opposition, may >>>> participate it and will be helped by this "Human" society, even if they >>>> live in different places. In this step, we will help people all around the >>>> world helping them to solve starving and other rudimentary injustices that >>>> still happens out there. After improving live standards around the world >>>> and curing aging, and even other diseases , and creating politics discussed >>>> with the whole society about taking care of new born people, so that they >>>> will have a good foundation, after it all, I will focus at overcoming my >>>> own DNA barriers, allowing me to live in other biospheres, without passing >>>> through death, and I call this the "Last Form" because the body will >>>> improve itself conscientiously, and when I achieve it I will become all >>>> powerful, being able to regenerate, change body form for adaptation, >>>> replication, move in vacuum, move to different galaxies immediately and >>>> live in any biosphere, and all that I want to distribute democratically and >>>> always thinking to help God in His mission to love humankind! >>>> When the language "simple" and end of aging be achieved, I believe that >>>> the evolution will be exponential, because I believe that working in this >>>> cause will become a "world passion" and though the hardest part is the >>>> beginning and not dying, if I achieve at least the methodology to stop >>>> dying by aging, the rest will be more guaranteed, and the society will look >>>> a lot more humanized! >>>> In this level, reproduction and war will be somewhat prehistoric and we >>>> will have new born citizens just by thought. I know it seems unbelievable, >>>> or a joke, but actually we will be more present and we will have a greater >>>> sense of reality because we will have more senses and we will be deeper >>>> connected with the universe, or in other words, we will absorb and >>>> transform matter and energy more efficiently and survive in different kind >>>> of places just by adapting our bodies consciously and using our senses. >>>> When this "Last Form" thing be available, it will happen that not >>>> everybody will want it, so they will just live immortally, and enjoy the >>>> resulting paradise created as part of the plan! >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Felipe Carmona Miquilini >>>> >>>> >>>> > > -- > Felipe Carmona Miquilini > > > *Artificial General Intelligence List <https://agi.topicbox.com/latest>* > / AGI / see discussions <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi> + > participants <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/members> + delivery > options <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription> Permalink > <https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T4958afbafca274a8-M413d0a6fbdd993b29984b174> > ------------------------------------------ Artificial General Intelligence List: AGI Permalink: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/T4958afbafca274a8-Me5e2290800a9ea6bcea1ddf7 Delivery options: https://agi.topicbox.com/groups/agi/subscription
