No, Sergio, I think our *general* understandings of inference are compatible, though no doubt different in specifics. It's knowledge/conclusions drawn from existing knowledge.
Leave your EI to one side, then - what is conceptually valuable is an insistence on emergence when talking about AGI. AGI is indeed about "producing emergence" (awkward phrase) - rather than, say, "complexity" or "scalability". To overcome a new obstacle in the street, you/a robot must produce a new kind of movement - a form of emergence. It won't be inferred from previous movements. The alternative phrase here suggested to me in response to yours, is that the key to AGI lies in "emergent incorporation" (vs inference) - by embodied incorporation of new objects and new movements into our activities. From: Sergio Pissanetzky Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 9:00 PM To: AGI Subject: RE: [agi] Emergent "Inference"? Mike, you are right, emergent inference is contradictory, because the inference does not emerge. I was thinking of another name, perhaps causal inference. Inference, to me, is finding new facts from known facts, either formulaic or not. In this case, EI finds new forms from known forms, but is uncomputable, so the new forms can not be derived formulaically. EI does not guess or create anything, it finds its self-organized strctures form information, so it needs the information first and the structures depend on and are determined by the available information. A new geometry or topolgy emerges in the brain of a scientist from an enormously great deal of knowledge acquired by the scientist over perhaps many years, observing, reading book, learning other theories. It seems to me that your undesrstanding of the term "inference" is different from mine. Sergio From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2012 4:25 AM To: AGI Subject: [agi] Emergent "Inference"? Can we have a simple example of emergent inference, Sergio? Here's a simple example of what I would consider emergent intelligence - if a program that deals only in a,b,c,d .. the A-Z alphabet, can suddenly start producing something like - though not the same as - Greek or Hebraic characters, or cuneiform (without of course knowing beforehand of other alphabets). That's true emergence - and the essence of AGI. Or if a program can suddenly move on from building houses with bricks to constructing houses of rocks or logs or cardboard boxes. That's true emergence. Emergence = the generation of 1) new kinds of elements that cannot be formulaically derived from the existing kinds - and/or 2) new forms that do not fit the same pattern as - cannot be inferred from - existing forms. Could you explain how "emergent **inference**" isn't a contradiction in terms? Isn't something that emerges precisely something that by definition CANNOT be "inferred" from what has gone on before? Every stage of evolution, natural and technological, is non-inferrable from the previous one. For example, the brain is not inferrable from a distributed neural net, ditto simple amphibian legs from fins, wings from furry pouches (or whatever). The tablet is not inferrable from the p.c., the jet is not inferrable from the propellor etc. I've realised that "emergent inference" is a v. useful concept - but useful; I suspect, precisely because it is a contradiction in terms. Emergence does not occur by inference but by totally different processes. ONe way of highlighting this is : can you give one example of any new kind of logic that has been "inferred" from previous kinds? Or any one new kind of geometry, that has been inferred from previous kinds? .How could topology have been inferred? Or freeform geometry? Or Riemannian geometry? AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
