Mike,
> "there is only one way of solving this problem {putting bricks/toys on
top of each other to build a tower]
I explained the essence of a possible way that is induced by very basic
parameters, which were induced from the scene and from the sensori-motor
capacities of the baby, with possibly elementary logic to drive it. I'll
add a few more:
-- If the baby feels that moving against an obstacle causes her arm not to
move further for a long time (there's some parameter here, I need a baby to
watch and see), and she doesn't stop the movement and freeze like this,
that's definitely considered a "dumb" action. It's something that animals
do, for example against a mirror or a window, and even very low animals
learn and avoid a mirror or a glass after hitting it once or a few times.
One very simple force to avoid such "dead-locks" are the distractions and
the "wondering" of mind, in my terms/theoretical constructs this is about
deliberate "design" of the control-causality units in mind preventing one
of them to hold control over the motor outputs for infinite amount of time.
There's economy and competition, and if one of those CCU governs for too
long, the others would take it down the government.
So sooner or later the baby learns to stop when feeling obstacles.
Of course, it learns that sometimes she can push and move an obstacle after
applying a force that's big enough - that's the case with hammers or hands
knocking balls through elastic or tight holes etc., but it has limits - if
the baby pushes an object that is too heavy, the proprioceptive signals
tell "Your actuator is not moving, but you apply force that's stretching
your body", if the force is too big, there would be pain also - another
method for learning to stop against obstacles.
As of stacking the other object exactly over the other - I'll continue:
That's the simplest "anchor" or a "goal", matching. An "empty mind", that
has no higher level crystallized goals, needs something to guide it.
Those other "objects" are the guides, and the most general mind would have
the very general "anchors", such as matches, higher-contrast,
higher-parameter etc.
The eyes of the mother (two matching visual patterns/texture which are
changing with a matching dynamics) and other contrasting and dynamic
sensations are the first directions for the baby's attention - baby's own
limbs are another point of focus.
>Unfortunately, there are more or less infinite ways of laying and
positioning one brick on top of another (and positioning your body, head,
eyes, and arms while doing so) -
Yes, there are infinite number of NON-ESSENTIAL features and details,
non-essential in the resolution of which we're talking about. Natural
language is not the way to discuss those features in high resolution.
>and indeed knocking the tower over - esp. if you are an infant with poor
motor control - as you can see if you check out the reality:
Poor motor control is not an intended feature, it's a fault. Robots such as
those in the final video have precise motions not because that's "dull",
they just have precise motors, also they have different axis of rotation,
different mechanics and dynamics than human limbs. Skilled and talented
humans after training also do have precise and "robot-like" movements,
compared to untrained one. Exploration is needed until the
trajectories/patterns are found and under control. The more skilled the
mind, the more "robotic" and automatic, quick, intensional etc. the motions
get.
>If you think the infants are iterating a pattern of bricklaying, please
explain what it is -
I did, but your notion of "pattern" is something that must be as rigid as
the robot in the video. Our (not just mine) is more general...
> incl. the precise physical positions and "coordinates" of the bricks on
top of each
>other - *and* the starting points on the floor/elsewhere from wh. they
are picked up. .
I've talked about this too - it's sensorimotor problem, NL is not
appropriate for explanations in that level of detail, that would be an
explanation with a simulation that has all of:
- 3D-model of the world with physics of solid bodies
- POV with stereo vision
- actuators
- motor outputs
- proprioceptive
- tactile sensori input
E.g. ROS (Robot Operating System), I suspect it has all built-in, I haven't
tried it yet, though.
The coordinates (relative to the scene on the videos) can be recovered even
by hand (with a 3D construction software), we and the baby do while
watching, from the position of the baby with stereo vision it's easier and
more robust.
There is apparent "randomness" which is result of noise, of chance and
specifics such as:
- where the bricks are in the beginning (especially relatively to the
baby's sight and hands)
- where the attention is and what the baby can hold in its attention, and
how exactly her attention dynamics works
- how long the arms are
what are the previous experience/routines of the baby
- what are her colour preferences
- what's the position of the body in this very momen
- what are the muscular strenghts and the dynamics and precision of their
reaction to the brain control
- what's the environment, what are the noises and distractions (like a
parent talking to the baby, a pet walking by etc.)
- dopamine-related sensitivity and dopamine distribution in the PFC during
the activity, and recent traces
- specifics of the basal ganglia and the cerebellum regarding particular
movements
- ...
Etc. etc. -- those make baby's moves look partialy "random" and "wondering".
However, see the motions of a virtuoso musician or the best football
players. The "pattern" is what motion to execute, what trajectory, in order
to move what other objects with what speed and to make it move with what
trajectory.
The "wondering"/exploration part is until the path, pattern, structure,
whatever is found. Afterwards it's not needed to reinvent it again and
again.
Yes, the bricks have different specific coordinates - I explained how's the
simplest method not to care about that.
-- Todor "Tosh" Arnaudov
http://research.twenkid.com
http://artificial-mind.blogspot.com
..
>
>
> - *From:* "Mike Tintner" <[email protected]>
>
>
> - *To:* <[email protected]>
>
>
> - *Subject:* Re: [agi] Real World/ Creative Reasoning - what no one
> gets about AGI
>
>
> - *Date:* Sun, 15 Jul 2012 11:41:21 +0100
>
>
>
>
> Todor,
>
> This is a cool way of answering problems.
>
> Basically: "there is only one way of solving this problem {putting
> bricks/toys on top of each other to build a tower] It's obvious. It's so
> simple. I, Todor, have solved it. If only you'd read my work, Chapter X,
> you'd realise this..."
>
> Unfortunately, there are more or less infinite ways of laying and
> positioning one brick on top of another (and positioning your body, head,
> eyes, and arms while doing so) - and indeed knocking the tower over - esp.
> if you are an infant with poor motor control - as you can see if you check
> out the reality:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxfPuEK4t08
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cCmzHMAlZU
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgmDivV0UWI
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMC58x6Y7xk
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C9YjQKwfaw
>
> If you think the infants are iterating a pattern of bricklaying, please
> explain what it is - incl. the precise physical positions and
> "coordinates" of the bricks on top of each other - *and* the starting
> points on the floor/elsewhere from wh. they are picked up. .
>
> Actually, the infants are doing what you're doing below -
> improvising/making it up - building a crazy argument [as in "crazy walk"}
> - as you go along - taking it one step/brick/wild assertion at a time,
> higgledy-piggledy - and not iterating any consistent pattern of behaviour.
>
> And that is indeed the foundation of an **intelligent** AGI.
>
> This OTOH is narrow AI brick-building- and iteration - and while v.
> useful also v. unintelligent :
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjHJY7_BzOI
>
> http://spectrum.ieee.org/automaton/robotics/diy/video-watch-flying-robots-build-a-6-meter-tower
> --
> -- Todor "Tosh" Arnaudov
> http://research.twenkid.com
> http://artificial-mind.blogspot.com
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