A characteristic is a part of the description of a thing. For example, a shared characteristic of patterns is (as you have pointed out before) that they have "common elements in common positions/relationships". (This could be stated more definitively, but since we both already know what you mean, I won't bother.) Treating that shared characteristic across all patterns itself as the common element, we can directly build a pattern over all patterns: the set of all patterns can be defined as the set of those things that have "common elements in common positions/relationships". Setting aside the objections of ZF set theory, that means that this set is a member of itself, since it has common elements in common positions/relationships, namely, the members of the set are the common elements, and their membership is the common position/relationship. In other words, you yourself have already defined the class or set of all patterns in terms of their shared characteristic of having "common elements in common positions/relationships", in your attempt to refute the existence of such a class or set. That description you provided is the very "metapattern for patterns generally" you are attempting to deny.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]>wrote: > What’s the difference between an “element” and a “characteristic”? And > what would you give as an example of a “metapattern?” [I’m not sure that > the last actually exists – a limited group of patterns may share common > sub-patterns as elements – but I wouldn’t really call that a metapattern. > Or you could transform one pattern into another, and the result would > classify as a metapattern – but only of that one original pattern. The same > operation applied to a totally different pattern would yield a totally > different metapattern. And the goal here is to identify how all patterns > belong to the same class. There is no metapattern for patterns generally]. > > *From:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Thursday, August 23, 2012 2:55 PM > *To:* AGI <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [agi] Boris Explains His Theory > > Where the disagreement arises is that these two are talking about > different levels of representation. It's the difference between use ("a > dog" or "a pattern") and mention ("the word 'dog'" or "the pattern > 'pattern'"). Mike is insisting on a strictly use-based representation, > looking for common elements *between* the patterns, and Jim is failing to > point out the difference between elements and characteristics, the > characteristics of the different patterns being the elements of the > metapattern. > > -Aaron > > ------------------------------ > On Aug 23, 2012 7:38 AM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> >> If you want to put that mathematically, take a whole set of diverse >> patterns – Koch curve, Mandelbrot, herringbone, cellular automaton etc . >> etc. – and explain how the brain is able to abstract from *all of them >> together* and recognize them collectively as “patterns” (and not just as >> Koch curves/herringbones etc. etc). >> >> Where’s the pattern in a set of diverse patterns, B & B? And where’s the >> complexity, Jim? >> > > > that's easy, these are all obviously susceptible to lossy compression > using algorithms native to the brain... > > ben > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/6952829-59a2eca5> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/23050605-bcb45fb4> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
