Oh jeez Aaron this is such a fundamental question wh. we have been into loads 
in previous years.

No you can’t represent an image in a net – that is visual illiteracy.

A) you can’t define the parts of an image
B) you can’t define the “map” – the form/whole - that is an image – (incl. 
every subwhole) -    the moment you define it, you break it into pieces, and 
you lose the form. Try putting a map of Italy into a net.

Give me a net for this (and dont come back till you are finished):

http://everydaybipolar.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/jungle2.jpg

P.S.  I have truly fully realised that AGI-ers simply don’t SEE the problem of 
AGI – literally have no pictorial understanding of it . I think I’ve worked out 
how to make it finally clear – but I don’t have time today.


From: Aaron Hosford 
Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 3:59 PM
To: AGI 
Subject: Re: [agi] Re: Superficiality Produces Misunderstanding - Not Good 
Enough

If semantic nets can't do it, images can't either, because I can represent an 
image as a semantic net and vice versa. They're just data formats. Some are 
more handy for some purposes, others more handy for others. Semantic nets are 
easier to work with when moving back and forth between the concrete and the 
abstract, while images are mainly just useful in one of these realms. So why 
are images superior?


On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> wrote:

  CHAIR

  ...

  It should be able to handle any transformation of the concept, as in

  DRAW ME (or POINT TO/RECOGNIZE)  A CHAIR IN TWO PIECES –..

  ..SQUASHED
  ..IN PIECES
  -HALF VISIBLE
  ..WITH AN ARM MISSING
  ...WITH NO SEAT
  ..IN POLKA DOTS
  ...WITH RED STRIPES

  Concepts are designed for a world of everchanging, everevolving multiform 
objects (and actions).  Semantic networks have zero creativity or adaptability 
– are applicable only to a uniform set of objects, (basically a database) -  
and also, crucially, have zero ability to physically recognize or interact with 
the relevant objects. I’ve been into it at length recently. You’re the one not 
paying attention.

  The suggestion that networks or similar can handle concepts is completely 
absurd.

  This is yet another form of the central problem of AGI, which you clearly do 
not understand – and I’m not trying to be abusive  – I’ve been realising this 
again recently – people here are culturally punchdrunk with concepts like 
*concept* and *creativity*, and just don’t understand them in terms of AGI.

  From: Jim Bromer 
  Sent: Tuesday, October 23, 2012 2:04 PM
  To: AGI 
  Subject: Re: [agi] Re: Superficiality Produces Misunderstanding - Not Good 
Enough

  Mike Tintner <[email protected]> wrote:
  AI doesn’t handle concepts.


  Give me one example to prove that AI doesn't handle concepts.
  Jim Bromer



  On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 4:24 AM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> 
wrote:

    Jim: Mike refuses to try to understand what I am saying because he would 
have to give up his sense of a superior point of view in order to understand it

    Concepts have nothing to do with semantic networks. 
    AI doesn’t handle concepts.
    That is the challenge for AGI.
    The form of concepts is graphics.
    The referents of concepts are infinite realms..

    What are you saying that is relevant to this, or that can challenge this – 
from any evidence?

















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