If you accept that rationality is created criteria, depending on your identification structure, will your AGI think itself to be an individual, a group, the republic of Chin-A-Merica perhaps? Will it know itself as the cosmos? or perhaps be split into multiple identities? "I am legion" will it be rational on average like a human? and what is rationality to you? What is rationality to AI?
On Sunday, December 2, 2012, Micah Blumberg wrote: > What is considered to be rational thinking and rational behavior is a > created criteria, in otherwords there is no absolute definition of rational > thinking and rational behavior, rational for an individual is not > necessarily rational for the genome or for the group, and visa versa. If > you accept this then you can make a plausible argument both in favor and > against the idea that the unconscious is rational, same for the conscious. > > On Sunday, December 2, 2012, Mike Tintner wrote: > > Ben, > > If you were more psychiatrically/psychoanalytically experienced, you would > suspect that you were responding here because something important has been > touched in your mind. > > As usual, you make a silly response rather than deal with a new, important > and still difficult idea. > > Few nowadays would dispute that the unconscious is mainly rational > processing – challenging the Freudian notion of it as something irrational. > We have had a string of books to that effect recently. I don’t see how you > could seriously object to that. > > We are also just starting to see the idea that the conscious mind is > creative, take hold in recent books. > > The contrary notion that it is algorithmic, pace most cognitive science, > is based on literally **zero** study of human conscious deliberations. The > slightest scientific study of such deliberations will show that the > conscious mind – as actually you all, in practice, agree (see Russell’s > recent thread) – has extraordinary difficulties following anything like an > algorithmic train of thought – has extraordinary difficulties > concentrating, period – that is perhaps the central glaring fact about > consciousness. You actually don’t get much sillier than arguing that the > conscious mind, which as William James noted, actually jumps all over the > place, is an algorithmic process. > > All this jumping about is precisely because life for a real AGI is > primarily a creative, and only secondarily a rational business. There are > no rules for any creative or real world activity, such as painting or > programming (or conversation or shopping), as there are for rational tasks > like mathematical calculation. You start composing your life – like your > posts and your chats – from a blank page, not an algorithmic formula. > Creativity is a whole different culture to that of rationality. > > If you weren’t so extraordinarily resistant to any new, out of the > rational box idea, you would realise that the joke will be very much on > you., > *From:* Ben Goertzel > *Sent:* Sunday, December 02, 2012 2:51 AM > *To:* AGI > *Subject:* Re: [agi] Kurzweil's new book > > > Whoa... that's a kinda surreal perspective!!! > > The unconscious is rational and algorithmic?? That would be a big > surprise to the psychiatry community ;O ;D ... > > Mike T, thanks for being baffling and silly in a different way than your > usual; that brightened up a foggy, rainy Hong Kong morning for me ;) > > ben > > On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]>wrote: > > Yes. Put that more simply, the conscious mind supervises creative > thinking - that which “we don’t know how to do” pace Piaget, and wh. is > non-algorithmic, - and the unconscious mind is in charge of routine, > (basically rational), algorithmic thinking, which we do already know how to > do. And that’s the essential architecture of a mildly evolved AGI or lower > organism – and a neat, fairly obvious division of labour. > > *From:* Micah Blumberg > *Sent:* Saturday, December 01, 2012 11:40 PM > > -- ~~ Warmly, Micah 7 1 4 ) 6 9 9 - 4 2 1 3 (voicemail and texting same digits) ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
