Ben, If you were more psychiatrically/psychoanalytically experienced, you would suspect that you were responding here because something important has been touched in your mind.
As usual, you make a silly response rather than deal with a new, important and still difficult idea. Few nowadays would dispute that the unconscious is mainly rational processing – challenging the Freudian notion of it as something irrational. We have had a string of books to that effect recently. I don’t see how you could seriously object to that. We are also just starting to see the idea that the conscious mind is creative, take hold in recent books. The contrary notion that it is algorithmic, pace most cognitive science, is based on literally **zero** study of human conscious deliberations. The slightest scientific study of such deliberations will show that the conscious mind – as actually you all, in practice, agree (see Russell’s recent thread) – has extraordinary difficulties following anything like an algorithmic train of thought – has extraordinary difficulties concentrating, period – that is perhaps the central glaring fact about consciousness. You actually don’t get much sillier than arguing that the conscious mind, which as William James noted, actually jumps all over the place, is an algorithmic process. All this jumping about is precisely because life for a real AGI is primarily a creative, and only secondarily a rational business. There are no rules for any creative or real world activity, such as painting or programming (or conversation or shopping), as there are for rational tasks like mathematical calculation. You start composing your life – like your posts and your chats – from a blank page, not an algorithmic formula. Creativity is a whole different culture to that of rationality. If you weren’t so extraordinarily resistant to any new, out of the rational box idea, you would realise that the joke will be very much on you., From: Ben Goertzel Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 2:51 AM To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Kurzweil's new book Whoa... that's a kinda surreal perspective!!! The unconscious is rational and algorithmic?? That would be a big surprise to the psychiatry community ;O ;D ... Mike T, thanks for being baffling and silly in a different way than your usual; that brightened up a foggy, rainy Hong Kong morning for me ;) ben On Sun, Dec 2, 2012 at 8:42 AM, Mike Tintner <[email protected]> wrote: Yes. Put that more simply, the conscious mind supervises creative thinking - that which “we don’t know how to do” pace Piaget, and wh. is non-algorithmic, - and the unconscious mind is in charge of routine, (basically rational), algorithmic thinking, which we do already know how to do. And that’s the essential architecture of a mildly evolved AGI or lower organism – and a neat, fairly obvious division of labour. From: Micah Blumberg Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 11:40 PM To: AGI Subject: Re: [agi] Kurzweil's new book Hawkins Memory-Prediction may be a key component of future AGI, but it isn't conscious, and its not meant to be, he is building it for a narrow the application of predicting live streaming big data, to make highly accurate predictions about when to heat a building on a campus, and when to cool it, to save money. That isn't AGI, it has a much more narrow focus. If you shut down the old brain, and just have a neo cortex, your neocortex alone will not be conscious. That's why Hawkins work isn't AGI On Saturday, December 1, 2012, Tim Tyler wrote: On 30/11/2012 19:52, Piaget Modeler wrote: Hawkins has a very narrow focus, he isn't building AGI, he's building software that makes predictions, its totally different from making an artificial mind. Not so much. If we knew what the consequences of our actions would be, it would help a *lot* with choosing between them. Think of chess, for instance. If you knew the likely consequences of your possible moves, you would be done. -- __________ |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]'); Remove lock to reply. AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription -- ~~ Warmly, Micah 7 1 4 ) 6 9 9 - 4 2 1 3 (voicemail and texting same digits) AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org "My humanity is a constant self-overcoming" -- Friedrich Nietzsche AGI | Archives | Modify Your Subscription ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-c97d2393 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-2484a968 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
