Hi Azn, How does your idea differ from a website like Wikipedia?
Also, your phase 1 which involves destroying the internet makes you sound a bit loony ;) Matt Kruse On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 2:49 PM, Azn A <[email protected]> wrote: > PM, I've already contributed more than enough to this list.. evident by > over 3 private messages (the whole list has 30 people lol). What's the > point of providing a technical paper anyway? That doesn't seem to have > helped Ben G... As I have said before, I'm creating a new Web because the > problems facing AGI are going to take a lot more ideas and resources. I > envision a new Web consisting of maybe 35 Web platforms (as the new Web > will be one giant database based on my new data model and top maps) > covering local knowledge to science. Once phase 1 is completed (destruction > of the old fragmented Web), I plan to roll out a Web platform that directs > AGI research. The system we'll be able to merge all references to a concept > onto a single topic and you will have access to all the information the > systems knows about the concept in one place. Researchers will be able to > integrate their ideas into a greater collection of knowledge and shared > across the Web. This will allow a single, coherent visual > framework/systematic picture in which users can focus on one or more > concepts and immediately see a conceptual summary of their focus. The > system will then request scientists, etc to conduct detailed research to > discover unknown facts about analyzed knowledge. The system would then put > these facts into the database by itself, even without interaction with > researchers. > > Many major scientific discoveries and breakthroughs have involved > recognizing the connections across domains or integrating insights from > several sources. In fact, a recent National Science Foundation report, > "Rebuilding the Mosaic", compiled over 250 white papers from researchers > calling for more interdisciplinary research. These are not associations of > words; they are deep insights that involve the actual subject matter of > these domains. We know that by looking at multiple issues simultaneously, > we can expand our knowledge and drastically change how we approach our > common problems. > > > That's the kind of thing that would get AGI moving forward if done right. > That would also lead to a revolution in science ( > http://science.kqed.org/quest/2011/09/26/the-open-science-movement/) > where Scientists, professional and amateur would have secure profiles and > could publish ideas quickly and be on record as the first to come up with > something long before they could get a paper out for peer review. The > pressure to publish here would come not from the science greats but from > the fringe. If some group of amateurs starts using their collective brains > to start mapping out ideas in your area of expertise, you better get all of > your work out in the daylight or they will steal your thunder. Any ideas > you post to someone else' page are there on record, so your part is known > to all. In the past you could have one genius pushing our understanding > because a lot wasn't known. Today, progress is a lot more incremental and > departmental ... One guy spends 5 years and through trial and error he > makes a small discovery. It takes time before other researches integrate > his discovery into their thought and put it to use because everything is > too fragmented and fucked up. The possibilities are endless here. > > What's your AGI idea again? > > > On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 12:15 PM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected] > > wrote: > >> Azzz-n, >> >> Please provide a link to one technical paper you've written, or one >> working AI or AGI program, or one book you've authored. >> >> I'll even take a blog post on A(G)I, for that matter. >> If you have nothing solid to contribute to this list, just go away... >> >> (Debating whether or not to add "until you do".) >> >> ~PM >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 11:23:03 -0700 >> >> Subject: Re: [AGI] Jeff Hawkins says 2014 is the year ! >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> >> "If you know anything about progress, you know you must try all the ways >> something doesn't work before you stumble upon the way(s) that work. Could >> take 50 years, could take 5,000." >> >> I don't need to try 20 different cups with holes in them to know they are >> all going to leak! Just like I can go back 30 years and tell you AGI isn't >> a math problem! >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 9:15 AM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >> I like hippies, they're generally non-violent. They wear peace signs. >> >> If you know anything about progress, you know you must try all the ways >> something doesn't work before you stumble upon the way(s) that work. >> Could take 50 years, could take 5,000. >> >> >> >> ~PM >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 02:19:19 -0700 >> >> Subject: Re: [AGI] Jeff Hawkins says 2014 is the year ! >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> >> Why do find healthy, powerful and ascending life unpleasant PM? Humility >> is for the weak, sick and on the decline. Brave, unconcerned, mocking, >> violent--thus wisdom wants us: she is a woman and always loves only a >> warrior. AGI is not going to fall into your laps hippie. Just look at all >> the failed attempts going back 50 plus years. If you want real thinking >> machines, you're going to have to fight for it. >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 8:25 PM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >> We'll All African's aren't Black . That's for sure. >> >> And you, my friend, come off more as Obnoxious than Black. >> >> That's for sure, too. >> >> Try a little humility. It may go a very long way. >> >> Cheers, >> >> ~PM >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 11:38:02 -0700 >> >> Subject: Re: [AGI] Jeff Hawkins says 2014 is the year ! >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> >> Pm, according to this 23andMe ancestry composition. I'm 57% African, 19% >> Ashkenazi, 18% Persian and 5% Native American. In other words, I'm kool, >> smart and sexy. Just think of a younger, smarter version of Barack Obama :) >> >> I don't think AGI is impossible. Ben G has some good Ideas. So do a lot >> of people. But they are missing pieces here and there. >> >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Piaget Modeler <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >> @ [the big] Azzzz, >> >> You're not Black. >> >> #1- Black people use capital B's to describe themselves; >> #2 - they prefer to use the words "African" or "African-American" to >> Black; >> #3 - they don't define themselves by their ability to use expletives; >> and finally >> #4 - they know that spelling cool with a k isn't. >> >> So I'd appreciate you being yourself, and being real. >> >> You're reminding me a lot of Mike Tintner--only he said AGI couldn't be >> done because >> it is impossible, no one will ever know how. Now you're saying AGI can't >> be done >> because other people currently don't know how, but you do. >> >> Omoshiroi... >> >> ~PM >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 01:10:46 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [AGI] Jeff Hawkins says 2014 is the year ! >> From: [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> >> >> "I'm not sure I'd drop so many f-bombs" >> >> That's because you're not black or kool like me ;). >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Sergio Donal <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> I also read it several years ago and do not remember pretty much either, >> but the thought that comes to my mind is that he was speaking that we are >> basically predicting the environment, either spatially, temporally or any >> other feature. So prediction is a form of "completion the scene" and there >> is where creativity comes up, we predict the current scene based in our >> past observations (and completions) but since the scene may be new, we are >> applying past experience to solve new problems. Or something like that... >> >> Now I realize, doesn't this sound kind of Bayesian? >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 11:28 PM, Mike Archbold <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> I'm not sure I'd drop so many f-bombs, but I had the feeling he's got >> a good compression/pattern match overall command scheme, and not >> math-heavy to boot, but not sure if he's got the ability to solve >> general problems. In other words, what is the processing structure >> for solving problems? I've read On Intelligence, 10 years ago, but >> have at present only a superficial understanding of his approach. >> >> On 4/3/14, Azn A <[email protected]> wrote: >> > He doesn't have is a fully temporal semantic database structure with a >> > generative normalization pattern matcher/vectorized scale free >> calculation >> > minimizer... I.e. the G in AGI. In other words, he's missing the minimal >> > concept basis for processing that has an optimal scalability while >> > minimizing complexity, without that it's a crap shoot if someone will >> ever >> > succeed in making a better than human level AGI that isn't just brute >> > forcing human intelligence by putting too much human knowledge in a >> system >> > and claiming it is better than human level intelligence while it is >> > actually less than human level due to a complete lack of creativity. >> > >> > Even worse, the deepest problem that nobody ever thinks about is the >> > knowledge representation system... they all have static/fragile designs, >> > Hawkins' products are really bad even in the sorta neural-net form he >> has >> > is fucking self-crippling in the number of associations that can be >> built >> > up. I've never seen a fucking neural-network capable of self-reflection >> and >> > differentiation, among many other conceptual paradoxical forms humans >> have >> > no problems thinking about.. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Mike Archbold <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> >> Long article, but interesting. It sounds like he's built the input >> >> but not the output, the motor control. I don't think there is any >> >> convincing argument about what paradigms to use for strong AI / AGI >> >> since there isn't a working such thing yet. Some math-first >> >> approaches seem like they want to lose you with the formula, otherwise >> >> I like math.... >> >> >> >> On 4/3/14, John Rose <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > You don't have enough math here. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > People are now looking more at the mathematical formalisms of >> software >> >> > systems. There are so many and of such variety. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Hawkins has one approach not the only approach. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > He's hardcoding the components mimicked from biological intelligence. >> >> > Are >> >> > there more efficient and easier to build components and are there >> >> > components >> >> > that morph? His don't morph. It looks to me like hardcoded AI BUT I >> >> haven't >> >> > studied the system. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > John >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > From: Azn A [mailto:[email protected]] >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/29/hawkins_ai_feature >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > "These are complex biological systems that were not designed by >> >> > mathematical >> >> > principles [that are] very difficult to formalize completely," he >> told >> >> us. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > "This reminds me a bit of the beginning of the computer era," he >> said. >> >> "If >> >> > you go back to the 1930s and early 1940s, when people first started >> >> > thinking >> >> > about computers they were really interested in whether an algorithm >> >> > would >> >> > complete, and they were looking for mathematical completeness, a >> >> > mathematical proof. If you today build a computer, no one sits around >> >> > saying >> >> > 'let's look at the mathematical formalism of this computer.' It >> reminds >> >> me >> >> > a >> >> > little about that. We still have people saying 'You don't have enough >> >> math >> >> > here!' >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > AGI | <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> Archives >> >> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/248029-3b178a58> | >> >> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> >> >> > Modify Your Subscription >> >> > >> >> > <http://www.listbox.com> >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > ------------------------------------------- >> >> > AGI >> >> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> >> > RSS Feed: >> >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >> >> > Modify Your Subscription: >> >> > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> >> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> >> AGI >> >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> >> RSS Feed: >> >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10514698-9a8cda1e >> >> Modify Your Subscription: >> >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------- >> > AGI >> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> > RSS Feed: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11943661-d9279dae >> > Modify Your Subscription: >> > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/15717384-a248fe41 >> >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10514698-9a8cda1e> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/19999924-4a978ccc> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10514698-9a8cda1e> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/19999924-4a978ccc> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10514698-9a8cda1e> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/19999924-4a978ccc> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10514698-9a8cda1e> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/19999924-4a978ccc> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/10514698-9a8cda1e> | >> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21697210-140bcd02> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
