I appreciate the fact that you actually said something about your notion of Conceptual Structure even though you are not interested in discussing it further.
Jim Bromer On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: > > A conceptual structure is most straightforwardly expressed in OpenCog as a > hypergraph whose nodes/links may either be concrete ones from the > AtomSpace, or VariableNodes representing "slots" to be filled > > Learning these may be done via PLN inference, or via Pattern Mining for > frequent/surprising conceptual-structure patterns in the AtomSpace > > This is important but not something I have a need to discuss at the > moment, it's kind of a "solved problem" on the representation level, and we > are working on getting the reasoning/learning aspect of such structures to > work better > > -- Ben G > > On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Jim Bromer via AGI <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> The two of you haven't actually said anything about the subject of the >> thread. You were able to respond to the personal part of my statement >> (which is probably the underlying reason why I make personal statements >> like that) but you did not discuss some of your knowledge about the >> subject. >> >> I didn't get it at first - because, as I am trying to say, you did not >> actually say anything about the topic. However, because I have a little >> familiarity with PM's program I finally made a guess about what he is >> talking about. >> >> I think you are probably confusing my notion of 'conceptual structure' >> with some kind of fundamental abstract structure of pre-programmed >> relations, like the GOFAI representations of conceptual relations where >> concepts were often values that filled 'slots' (in the pre-defined >> structure). So PM's conceptual structure would be the relations that were >> pre-defined by him. Right there is one difference between (what I believe >> is) his notion of conceptual structure and my own. I believe that concepts >> in AGI have to be learned so I question whether conceptual structures can >> be adequately predefined by PM or anyone else. >> >> So even though I still haven't been able to get anyone to discuss this >> topic with me I have been able to read the tea leaves of their pretensions >> and learned something. If conceptual structure was something that could be >> represented with a few combinations of pre-defined abstractions then the >> topic would be obvious and trivial because it permeates GOFAI methodologies. >> >> This makes so much sense that I must have reached this conclusion before. >> If you are able to truly understand the notion of a conceptual structure >> (so that you could discuss it intelligently) then it would itself have to >> be a concept in itself. >> >> Thank you. I guess it is really is time for me to move on. I know how >> annoying I can be but maybe you should ask yourselves whether your >> responses were anything other than tedious and trivial. >> >> >> Jim Bromer >> >> On Sat, Dec 27, 2014 at 12:18 AM, Piaget Modeler via AGI <[email protected] >> > wrote: >> >>> And some of us are onto other things. >>> >>> ~PM >>> -------------- >>> >>> > Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 00:11:41 -0500 >>> > Subject: [agi] Conceptual Structure? >>> > From: [email protected] >>> > To: [email protected] >>> >>> > >>> > No one in these groups has been interested in discussing conceptual >>> > structure with me. I think that is a bit odd. I suppose I should draw >>> > some conclusions from that, accept it and move on. >>> > >>> > Structure is more than correlation. You might 'discover' structure >>> > using correlation but only if your program was able to create theories >>> > about structure and apply them via some mechanism other than >>> > correlation. One possibility is that structure is conceptually >>> > abstract so a handful of relations would be adequate to handle the >>> > representation of an immense variety of structural relations. But if >>> > that is true, then that should make conceptual structure easy to apply >>> > and to study. And that should mean that conceptual structure is >>> > something that should generate a lot of discussion in AI / AGI groups >>> > like this. >>> > >>> > The only conclusion I can come to is that most of the people in this >>> > group are not actually working on viable projects, so they are more >>> > preoccupied by more familiar mainstream discussions and discussions >>> > about outlier conjectures that could have a major impact on the >>> > feasibility of AGI if they were themselves feasible. >>> > Jim Bromer >>> > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------- >>> > AGI >>> > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >>> > RSS Feed: >>> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/19999924-4a978ccc >>> > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >>> > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/24379807-653794b5> | >>> Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Your Subscription >>> <http://www.listbox.com> >>> >> >> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/212726-deec6279> | Modify >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> >> Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > http://goertzel.org > > "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one > persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress > depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
