Dorian et. al. Good to be getting into this. I have a sense of responsibility to those that may seek to be involved. We have to get this right .. or as least as close as we can.
This framework: 1) Computer-based AGI (C-AGI) - digital computers are excellent tools, however compared to the real brain they provide only a “reduced model of computation” . 2) Hybrid-based AGI (H-AGI) to integrate wet lab research, current AGI efforts, build a "full model of computation" that can be reshaped and provide more tips how to build a more synthetic AGI . This intermediary step can bring funding from all brain initiatives and have huge impact on health/medicine and therapy. 3) Non-computer-based AGI (NC-AGI) , the final step This is excellent. I was always headed to 2). I just wish I had expressed it this way earlier! Thanks Dorian. The brain is a natural version of (3). Clearly we are looking at a new approach that, via something like an IGI, explores the possibility that H-AGI is a step towards (3) and why. Such an approach merely recognizes that we do not know which of the three (or combos of them) lead to what AGI potential. This initiative represents an inclusive expansion in approaches to AGI. *Board* I lean towards a business model that includes a managed receptiveness to the views of the academic infrastructure. NOTE: I actually have a long history in business. Process control/machine automation. I have started and run companies and filled them full of folk. But I discovered its not my natural habitat. But I can do it at gunpoint. I even got lawyers to put together a constitution for a research institute once. I realised it would never get off the ground because of me not being a scientist. All I had was an idea. The same idea that I bring here today. So I became a scientist. Now I think I can do this. But I would rather someone else did the nuts and bolts. I definitely shouldn't be administering it. But I know how to set up and be enthusiastic about stuff that someone else can run. I have the capacity to ensure the institute deals with IP issues (or to decide not to). But if I was running such a thing I would not hire me to inhabit the role because it's not really 'me'. What I prefer to do is science magic in the back room, out of sight. That is my natural habitat. I have discovered that. But if I have to put that old hat back on .... I will. I also realise that this is not about me. This is about a new approach. I may have to be happy just to foster it and set it free and accept that is my part in it. Being nearly 60 I am realistic about my role in it. Build the fire. Strike it. Let the youngsters loose. Make it fun. So I see the practical aspects of establishment of an IGI to be a little less of a problem than Dorian might think. The meat of this? We have what Craig Venter has in terms of a novel solution to an old problem. That idea also has at least the potential impact of the human genome. What we don't have is Craig Venter's money. I wish. I can tell you now that if I did I'd already be doing all of this. There would already be an IGI and it would already have robots doing things. Like Venter we do not need anyone's permission to do this. This has been extremely frustrating for me. Yet .. I have a very honed appreciation of the academic approach. I choose the business way forward because the process is 'solve a single pesky problem' oriented. I am here to solve a problem. If I can't do that then I will not be doing science at all. There is a history of 'one trick scientists'. That's me. Discoverer of the neutrino, inventor of the blue LED etc etc. Pigheaded stubbornness in pursuit of a single goal. Additionally, if, like the original inventor of fire, a problem was solved without knowing formally how (that comes after) then that is fine. In the history of science the 'theory follows practice' model is my approach. AGI is strangely under-represented in this approach. This problem could be solved without any publishing whatever and without any theory.. Just by enthusiasm and resources. But I would rather it find some sort of equilibrium between the two extremes of academia/business. Yet another hybrid, but with a business-structured approach. Like what Venter did. Maybe the HTM progenitor.... Jeff Hawkins ... might see the IGI as interesting? There are a bevy of the potentially interested to seek. Investors will look more favourably on the IGI as an IP factory rather than a scientific paper factory. The reverse is the case for the academic establishment. So we have to throw the dart and then maybe draw the bullseye where it hits and sticks. That balance is a mystery to me. Example: I have been inside a $50,000,000 bionic eye project based on academic-centric activity. Despite all that activity, the actual result is lots of science knowledge, lots of new infrastructure, skill base .... and an actual commercial outcome that is a too-late, too little camel designed by an academic mandate to design and build a horse. I say that with respect, knowing personally the head professor and involved with a paper with him as we speak. (Thinks ... must get back to that). It doesn't work well as a route to timely, appropriate tech or commerce outcomes. They think they had success because of "number of patents" KPI. I want success "solved the problem". Imagine what we could have done with $50,000,000. Makes me grumpy. Unlike the bionic eye, H-AGI already has the tech infrastructure to succeed. It's over-prepared through inattention as an option. The only thing missing is a cultural recognition of a path that was always there but never followed. It's not like we are even being radical in the deep sense of science practice! It's a reversion to history. It's likely to have an accelerated uptake in the IP department. We can kick business oriented structure ideas about a bit here if you like. And potential people? Have a go! We are learning what it is like to encounter this possibility as a group, together. We have a certain responsibility to do the best we can. First footsteps on a new landscape and all. That sort of thing. I have reverted to my opening remark... so I guess I am done! regards Colin Hales On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 4:36 AM, Dorian Aur <[email protected]> wrote: > Steve “Without these, Colin approach seems to be doomed.” > > > > A good point that's why we need to explicitly introduce the intermediate > step (2) and we can have everything under one roof (integrate not divide) > > > > 1) Computer-based AGI (C-AGI) - digital computers are excellent tools, > however compared to the real brain they provide only a “reduced model of > computation” > > 2) Hybrid -based AGI (H-AGI) to integrate wet lab research, > current AGI efforts, build a "full model of computation" that can be > reshaped and provide more tips how to build a more synthetic AGI . This > intermediary step can bring funding from all brain initiatives and > have huge impact on health/medicine and therapy. > > 3) Non-computer-based AGI (NC-AGI) , the final step > > > > *Why a board of directors?* > > > > One may pursue two different models: > > *(A)Academic model: * Defending the value of information written in the > textbooks is a responsibility of any academic scholar, so changing/ > challenging anything becomes extremely difficult – see the initial > acceptance of Deep Learning models ten years ago > > *(B)Business model: * works in many cases better than the academic > model in shaping new things, see Tesla, Edison,Ford, Marconi and more > recently Craig Venter. Fast gains are required to maintain the business > model running. > > > > The board of directors should mainly take care of AGI business, > marketing strategy for any attempt made in (1)(2) and (3). Step 2 can help > the AGI business . > > Selecting the future board members is probably the most important task > for IGI, Ben and many others can provide more details about how difficult > is to maintain AGI business today. Chip implants, Mercury colonization.... > and similar topics can all be thoroughly discussed after IGI is up and > running > > > We need to shape IGI based on a business model, so please feel, free to > make any reliable proposals to build the infrastructure > > > Dorian > > > PS Neither Colin nor I are businessman and we do not make any attempt > to be members of the board > > > On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 3:50 AM, Logan Streondj <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On Sun, May 17, 2015 at 09:48:03AM +1000, colin hales wrote: >> > Sorry about the previous empty. Phone issue. 10 thumbs. >> > >> > My particular flavour of the non-computer approach is irrelevant. I am >> not pushing my own at all. >> > >> > Robot $ and kind irrelevant. I have the math you speak of. Wrong on >> both counts. >> > >> > I do not care what kind of NC-AGI arises. All I know is that NC-AGI >> important, neglected and needs a champion. >> >> okay so obviously you are the champion. >> Why is it important? >> >> you guys have been talking about it for a week now, >> and I still have no idea why you think it has value. >> >> like lets be honest here, anything that isn't a computer or >> technology is biology. so what you are really talking about >> (seems to me) is biological-AGI, or connecting a vat of >> brain-cells to a computer. >> this has been done, and can play simple video games. >> but so can deep neuronets on computers. >> >> >> > So please set anything you think you know about me or my approach >> aside. You actually know almost nothing and what little that is is >> irrelevant to what is happening in this thread. >> >> okay so do you have some kind of proprietary secret approach? >> >> I was thinking you can Dorian can sign an NDA and then no one >> will ever know about anything you guys do. >> >> personally I think that there are a lot of potential ethical >> issues with using biological mediums for computation, also they >> aren't particularly scalable or portable. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> AGI >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/17795807-366cfa2a >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/11721311-20a65d4a> | > Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> > Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
