As I was saying, (or maybe just implying) without the implementation of judgment and artificial self awareness - at least at a minimal level - AI is not going to be strong AI. Bots cannot communicate at a level of human beings. The whole problem is that there is something missing even at the lowest levels of AI so you do not see gradual achievement that steadily improves each year. Instead we have seen fireworks of amazing achievements embedded in systems lacking even the most fundamental glimmers of human-like abilities. So the problem of judgement must be a necessary component of even fundamental human-like AI. I also think reason-based reasoning is also a necessary component.
Jim Bromer On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 11:41 PM, Nanograte Knowledge Technologies < [email protected]> wrote: > Unless manifested in the flesh as a real person, there exists a 50% > possibility that any digital persona may be a bot. To be real, perhaps > humans must stop messing around when communicating in the blind? Any AI > machine can take human-like responses and replicate them in a particular > context. Parsing through reams of comments on social media, it would seem > to me that nonsensical statements and personal insults seemingly qualifies > as socially-acceptable, and even intelligent communication. All is > relatively. > > Are humans the real cosmic AI of a greater intelligence? What would human > intelligence be worth without its physical, quantum connectivity? Some > humans are capable of exhibiting greater intelligence, but most humans are > seemingly content to exist as a daily, lesser copy of yesterday's > intelligence, as artificial intelligence. We can test this on the hand of > original thought. Does it exist? > > Does any repetitive, computational program in any form qualify as AI, or > only when it is engineered by humans? > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jim Bromer <[email protected]> > *Sent:* 21 February 2017 01:15 AM > *To:* AGI > *Subject:* Re: [agi] IIT: Conscious Programming Structures > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Jan Matusiewicz > <[email protected]> wrote: > > @Nanograde What do you think? Is [email protected] a bot or human? > > Answering only the first sentence and ignoring the rest suggests that is > is > > bot. On the other hand - even a bot should have a knowledge that in the > > sentence "I happen not to know Elon Musk" - the word "not" negates the > rest > > of the sentence. It is a basic thing even in sentiment analysis. > > > Your remarks can be said to be representative of humanity if you want > to cynically take the more mundane disingenuous side of human behavior > as a basis. And by the way, your emphasis that the word "not" negated > the rest of the sentence was a misdirection because there is no > evidence that he tried to inadvertently or sneakily negate the rest of > the sentence. There is no reason for you to point it out. The smiley > face and the next sentence in his post emphasized his meaning; the > negation is part of a colloquialism that was responsive to a previous > criticism. In truth, I do not know Elon Musk either. You may certainly > ask him how those names came to be listed as "collaborators" on his > webpage but to sarcastically ridicule him as a bot is disingenuous and > not insightful. > Jim Bromer > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 3:41 PM, Jan Matusiewicz > <[email protected]> wrote: > > @Nanograde What do you think? Is [email protected] a bot or human? > > Answering only the first sentence and ignoring the rest suggests that is > is > > bot. On the other hand - even a bot should have a knowledge that in the > > sentence "I happen not to know Elon Musk" - the word "not" negates the > rest > > of the sentence. It is a basic thing even in sentiment analysis. > > > > In addition - [email protected] is mentioned in the paper > > https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1411/1411.5224.pdf, so I guess it is > > nevertheless a human. > > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 6:39 PM, Dorian Aur <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Excellent, if you know Elon you should ask him. > >> > >> On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at 1:19 AM, Jan Matusiewicz > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> I happen not to know Elon Musk in person ;-) You do? > >>> I see that there are much more notable "collaborators": Larry Page, > Mark > >>> Zuckerberg, Bill Gates. Do you claim that they really collaborate on > your > >>> project? > >>> > >>> Think before you answer. Your creditibility is at stake. Nothing is > lost > >>> in the Internet, if someone is going to find out "Is Dorian Aur from > >>> Stanford University a reliable scientist" - he or she might find this > >>> discussion. > >>> > >>> On Sun, Feb 19, 2017 at 7:35 PM, Dorian Aur <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> You should ask Elon, already the number has doubled. > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Jan Matusiewicz > >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Is this project really supported by Elon Musk? It has only 45 reads > and > >>>>> 3 followers so I doubt that. > >>>>> On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 19:20 Dorian Aur, <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That's the reliable path to build AGI and conscious machines > >>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/project/Build-Conscious-Machines > <https://www.researchgate.net/project/Build-Conscious-Machines> > Build Conscious Machines by Dorian Aur - Research Project on ResearchGate > <https://www.researchgate.net/project/Build-Conscious-Machines> > www.researchgate.net > Follow project: Build Conscious Machines by Dorian Aur on ResearchGate, > the professional network for scientists. > > >>>>>> We will be greatly appreciate your constructive contribution > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 8:15 AM, Jim Bromer <[email protected]> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> An example of a substantive reason to support some AI theories is > >>>>>>> that > >>>>>>> many programs have the ability to make some 'prediction' based on > the > >>>>>>> reaction to > >>>>>>> features of input. Working from there, the ability to make > >>>>>>> predictions > >>>>>>> means that knowledge or capabilities which had been integrated > could > >>>>>>> be used meaningfully. My counter argument is that 'prediction' and > >>>>>>> 'predictive utility' as used in contemporary AI is just as noisy > and > >>>>>>> lossy as any other would be AGI facility. So although this kind of > >>>>>>> ability may be necessary for AGI it (along with feedback > integration > >>>>>>> differentiation exclusion and a host of other contemporary AI > >>>>>>> methods), it is far from sufficient. And I acknowledge that > >>>>>>> reasonable > >>>>>>> expectation that progress in AGI is not going to be instantaneous > or > >>>>>>> smooth. > >>>>>>> Jim Bromer > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Jim Bromer <[email protected]> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > I will look at some of the links when I get some time, but you > >>>>>>> > clearly > >>>>>>> > did not understand my criticism of the theory. Even if I did > >>>>>>> > misunderstand something from your presentation, so what? It does > >>>>>>> > not > >>>>>>> > necessarily mean the criticism is irrelevant. An example of a > >>>>>>> > substantive reason to support some AI theories is that many > >>>>>>> > programs > >>>>>>> > have the ability to make some 'prediction' based on the reaction > to > >>>>>>> > features of input. If you had used that argument I would have > >>>>>>> > pointed > >>>>>>> > out that the ability of AI to make predictions (or expectations) > is > >>>>>>> > wiped out by extraneous features (noise) and by the complexity of > >>>>>>> > any > >>>>>>> > AI program to find which features would be relevant in different > >>>>>>> > situations (lossy 'insights'). I am not saying this is relevant > to > >>>>>>> > what you are saying I am just trying to give you an example of > how > >>>>>>> > reasoning can be used to support a theory and how some reasoning > >>>>>>> > which > >>>>>>> > is substantial in theory may not be that strong in practice. > >>>>>>> > Jim Bromer > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > On Sat, Feb 18, 2017 at 8:03 AM, Logan Streondj > >>>>>>> > <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>>>>>> >> Hash: SHA256 > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> On 2017-02-17 10:03 PM, Jim Bromer wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> Sorry. OK, you said the meditating was high phi. But your > >>>>>>> >>> response > >>>>>>> >>> ignored (and was a distraction from) the point that I made > that > >>>>>>> >>> it would be possible to create computer programs that were > >>>>>>> >>> capable > >>>>>>> >>> of integration and differentiation (and therefore were capable > of > >>>>>>> >>> learned exclusion) which were not capable of anything > resembling > >>>>>>> >>> true intelligence. > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> Do you have examples? > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >>> And I explicitly included the possibility that improvements in > >>>>>>> >>> AGI > >>>>>>> >>> might be slow and uneven. > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> You just said there wasn't even a glimmer. > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >>> I do not have the time to waste 'doing research' into > conjectures > >>>>>>> >>> which are not demonstrable and which cannot be buttressed by > >>>>>>> >>> reasoning. > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> That is very sad. If you don't do research, I don't understand > how > >>>>>>> >> you > >>>>>>> >> intend to contribute anything of value. > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> Some studies that used/demonstrated integrated information > theory > >>>>>>> >> in > >>>>>>> >> humans: > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> Improved Measures of Integrated Information > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> <http://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10. > 1371/journal.pcbi.1 > >>>>>>> >> 005123> > >>>>>>> >> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2930263/ > >>>>>>> >> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2823915/ > >>>>>>> >> http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/5/198/198ra105 > >>>>>>> >> Signature of consciousness in the dynamics of resting-state > brain > >>>>>>> >> activi > >>>>>>> >> ty > >>>>>>> >> http://www.pnas.org/content/112/3/887.short > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> A simplified explanation of various predictions and explaining > >>>>>>> >> powers > >>>>>>> >> of IIT (cites numerous demonstrating studies): > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> <http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Integrated_ > information_theory#Predi > >>>>>>> >> ctions_and_explanations> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> Some Machine Intelligence specific studies: > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> An affective computational model for machine consciousness > >>>>>>> >> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1701.00349.pdf > >>>>>>> >> High Integrated Information in Complex Networks Near Criticality > >>>>>>> >> http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-44778-0_22 > >>>>>>> >> Group Minds and the Case of Wikipedia > >>>>>>> >> https://arxiv.org/abs/1407.2210 > >>>>>>> >> Integrated Information Theory and Artificial Consciousness > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> <https://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&lr=&id= > YIIJDgAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&d > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> q=artificial&ots=nYUVMmJnSw&sig=WSi1ECoHAhYrwgrNdUHu3hX4kWU#v= > onepage&q= > >>>>>>> >> artificial&f=false> > >>>>>>> >> The Information-theoretic and Algorithmic Approach to Human, > >>>>>>> >> Animal > >>>>>>> >> and Artificial Cognition > >>>>>>> >> https://arxiv.org/abs/1501.04242 > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >>> You have not even begun to respond to the crucial criticisms. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> I wasn't aware of any criticisms, other than misunderstandings > on > >>>>>>> >> your > >>>>>>> >> behalf. > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >>> Jim Bromer > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >> Thanks, > >>>>>>> >> motivated me to post a bunch of links to studes. > >>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 7:38 PM, Logan Streondj > >>>>>>> >>> <[email protected] > >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>>> You said that meditating might be a form of low phi. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> no i didn't. i said several times in different ways: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Actually passive consciousness can be high phi, the phi level > is > >>>>>>> >>> determined by integration, information and exclusion, not by > >>>>>>> >>> activity. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>>> we should have seen glimmers of true AGI even if those > glimmers > >>>>>>> >>>> did not equal strong AI. So the question is why haven't we > seen > >>>>>>> >>>> that? > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> we have, your just turning a blind eye to it. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> On February 17, 2017 6:04:40 PM EST, Jim Bromer > >>>>>>> >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Here is my point of view. GOFAI should have worked, in the > sense > >>>>>>> >>> that it should have kept improving over the years. That > >>>>>>> >>> improvement might have been slow and uneven but it should have > >>>>>>> >>> worked. What we see now is that most of the creative processes > >>>>>>> >>> seem > >>>>>>> >>> to occur within neural nets, especially in hybrids that use > both > >>>>>>> >>> neural nets and systems that have been designed for more > discrete > >>>>>>> >>> (or more discrete-like) kinds of reasoning. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> If history had unfolded in the way I think it should have, then > >>>>>>> >>> we > >>>>>>> >>> should have seen glimmers of true AGI even if those glimmers > did > >>>>>>> >>> not equal strong AI. So the question is why haven't we seen > that? > >>>>>>> >>> To say that a theory which cannot be demonstrated is able to > >>>>>>> >>> actually express consciousness, even glimmers of consciousness, > >>>>>>> >>> needs a lot of supporting reasoning. It might turn out to be a > >>>>>>> >>> good theory but if it can't pull its own weight then it is just > >>>>>>> >>> dreaming. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> You have to explain why this conjecture might be useful to us. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> You said that meditating might be a form of low phi. But when a > >>>>>>> >>> person is meditating he is able to demonstrate that he is > capable > >>>>>>> >>> of strong reasoning. A computer program seems to integrate and > >>>>>>> >>> differentiate data based on abstract principles. A learning > >>>>>>> >>> program could then turn new learning into abstract principles > >>>>>>> >>> which > >>>>>>> >>> could be used to integrate and differentiate new data. But a > >>>>>>> >>> program that did that would not have to be thinking or learning > >>>>>>> >>> in > >>>>>>> >>> a useful way. Jim Bromer > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Logan Streondj > >>>>>>> >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> On 2017-02-14 04:10 PM, Jim Bromer wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Well again you are talking about interesting concepts like > >>>>>>> >>> passive > >>>>>>> >>> consciousness (or low phi - that's a great expression). > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Actually passive consciousness can be high phi, the phi level > is > >>>>>>> >>> determined by integration, information and exclusion, not by > >>>>>>> >>> activity. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> But does that actually make sense? Wouldn't passive > consciousness > >>>>>>> >>> be zombie like? > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> It would be more like alpha meditation, passive awareness. > Ready > >>>>>>> >>> to > >>>>>>> >>> spring into action. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> You are suggesting that there may be something in between but > >>>>>>> >>> which has very limited effects. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> I'm not sure what you are referring to. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> That is cool, but not really demonstrable with current AI > >>>>>>> >>> concepts > >>>>>>> >>> is it? How do you show that there is dormant consciousness in > an > >>>>>>> >>> AI application without awaking it? > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> well if a program has high phi can be determined by it's > >>>>>>> >>> structure > >>>>>>> >>> and connections. So if you have access to that information, can > >>>>>>> >>> be > >>>>>>> >>> done in an offline setting. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> It's dormancy status doesn't change it's phi level. For example > >>>>>>> >>> it > >>>>>>> >>> could be waiting for an interrupt or a packet to process. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Or if it is a process loaded into RAM that is sharing CPU > >>>>>>> >>> resources, but is not currently scheduled -- from it's > >>>>>>> >>> perspective > >>>>>>> >>> nothing is happening, unless it is being processed by the CPU. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Jim Bromer > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 7:16 PM, Logan Streondj > >>>>>>> >>> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> On 2017-02-13 05:43 PM, Mike Archbold wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> I agree with Jim Bromer. Partly I guess it depends how Tononi > >>>>>>> >>> defines consciousness. I've studied it very generally, but not > in > >>>>>>> >>> detail. Intuitively, he seems to have identified an essential > >>>>>>> >>> component but by no means everything.... Obviously our > >>>>>>> >>> consciousness is saturated in feedback, but just having a > >>>>>>> >>> feedback > >>>>>>> >>> property does not make a computer conscious. What is a more > >>>>>>> >>> complete definition under IIT? It can't be just feedback... > what > >>>>>>> >>> I > >>>>>>> >>> have seen of IIT looks interesting. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> "it has been pointed out that the brain (and many other > systems) > >>>>>>> >>> is > >>>>>>> >>> full of reentrant circuits, many of which do not seem to > >>>>>>> >>> contribute > >>>>>>> >>> to consciousness [51]. IIT offers some specific insights with > >>>>>>> >>> respect to these issues. First, the need for reciprocal > >>>>>>> >>> interactions within a complex is not merely an empirical > >>>>>>> >>> observation, but it has theoretical validity because it is > >>>>>>> >>> derived > >>>>>>> >>> directly from the phenomenological axiom of (strong) > integration. > >>>>>>> >>> Second, (strong) integration is by no means the only > requirement > >>>>>>> >>> for consciousness, but must be complemented by information and > >>>>>>> >>> exclusion. Third, for IIT it is the potential for interactions > >>>>>>> >>> among the parts of a complex that matters and not the actual > >>>>>>> >>> occurrence of ‘‘feed-back’’ or ‘‘reentrant’’ signaling, as is > >>>>>>> >>> usually assumed. As was discussed above, a complex can be > >>>>>>> >>> conscious, at least in principle, even though none of its > neurons > >>>>>>> >>> may be firing, no feed-back or reentrant loop" IIT3.0 > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Basically from my limited understanding of IIT3.0 > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Consciousness requires three things Information, Integration > and > >>>>>>> >>> Exclusion. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Feedback satisfies integration, as the components have to be > >>>>>>> >>> interconnected. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Information implies that there are past memories which can > affect > >>>>>>> >>> present actions, or that memories could be acquired to affect > >>>>>>> >>> future actions. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> And Exclusion means that the consciousness has defined borders. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> It would seem that it may be a bit tricky with the program > >>>>>>> >>> switching that happens in a modern CPU. Though I'm fairly > certain > >>>>>>> >>> that with FPGA's it would apply quite smoothly. For instance > >>>>>>> >>> after > >>>>>>> >>> some FPGA circuits have been set up, even if they are not > >>>>>>> >>> active, > >>>>>>> >>> they could still be passively conscious, ready for input. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> It may be similar if you consider things loaded in RAM or cache > >>>>>>> >>> as > >>>>>>> >>> passively conscious and actively conscious when processing in > >>>>>>> >>> CPU. > >>>>>>> >>> Similarly a kernel loaded in GPU would be conscious, though I > >>>>>>> >>> think there would be some question as to the quality of > >>>>>>> >>> consciousness, whether it might be highly modular, and thus of > a > >>>>>>> >>> low phi. IF however all the kernels are working together, via > >>>>>>> >>> local > >>>>>>> >>> or glboal memory, they could be considered strongly integrated, > >>>>>>> >>> and > >>>>>>> >>> would be a singular consciousness. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> On 2/13/17, Steve Richfield <[email protected] > >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Your Central Metabolic Control System (CMCS) is clearly both > >>>>>>> >>> intelligent and independent. It appears to have abilities > >>>>>>> >>> approximating a PhD Control Systems Engineer, and often works > at > >>>>>>> >>> cross purposes to your conscious intentions to keep you alive > and > >>>>>>> >>> healthy. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> CMCS malfunctions often look a LOT like demonic possession. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Steve > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> On Feb 11, 2017 12:11 PM, "Dr Miles Dyson" > >>>>>>> >>> <[email protected] > >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:[email protected] > <[email protected]>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> When I fall asleep and loose consciousness, the neurons in my > >>>>>>> >>> brain do not rearrange themselves such that no feedback loops > >>>>>>> >>> exist. And there are many feedback loops that exist in the > brain, > >>>>>>> >>> but I don't have many consciousnesses, I have but one. For both > >>>>>>> >>> of > >>>>>>> >>> those reasons consciousness and neural net feedback loops are > not > >>>>>>> >>> one and the same thing. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Jim Bromer < > [email protected] > >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> I don't concur, but it is an interesting placement of the > minimum > >>>>>>> >>> for (machine) 'consciousness'. I did not realize that > 'stateless' > >>>>>>> >>> 'pure functions' could be called 'feed forward'. If global > >>>>>>> >>> effects > >>>>>>> >>> were sufficient to induce 'consciousness' then any program > with > >>>>>>> >>> global effects could be called conscious. Even assuming that > you > >>>>>>> >>> were being more specific than that I still don't think > structures > >>>>>>> >>> that can carry states between calls (in the ways that you were > >>>>>>> >>> thinking) would be sufficient for conscious behaviors to > emerge.. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Jim Bromer > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Logan Streondj > >>>>>>> >>> <[email protected] > >>>>>>> >>> <mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> I've been promoting Integrated Information Theory for a while > but > >>>>>>> >>> I finally sat down and read the whole thing yesterday. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Explicitly it mentions that feed forward neuronets are > 'zombies' > >>>>>>> >>> or unconscious while recurrent neuronets are conscious due to > the > >>>>>>> >>> feedback loops. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> So now I'm wondering which classical programming structures are > >>>>>>> >>> 'zombies' and which are conscious. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> It would seem by analogy that stateless or pure functions are > >>>>>>> >>> zombies since they simply feed forward. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Wheras structures that carry state between calls such as > objects > >>>>>>> >>> and actors are conscious. > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> Do you concur? > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail and OpenKeychain. > my > >>>>>>> >>> fingerprint is bd7e 6e2a e625 6d47 f7ed 30ec 86d8 fc7c fad7 > 2729 > >>>>>>> >>> *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/ > member/archive/303/=now > >>>>>>> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now>> > >>>>>>> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > 24379807-653794b > >>>>>>> >>> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > 24379807-653794b> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> 5> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> > >>>>>>> >>> | Modify <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; 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> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > *AGI* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/24379807-653794b5> | > Modify > <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> > Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com> > ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/21088071-f452e424 Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=21088071&id_secret=21088071-58d57657 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
