MT:Can you think of a single analogy or metaphor, in addition, that is purely symbolic? Ben:I don't really understand your definitions of the terms analogy, metaphor or symbolic...
Analogy: He eats like a pig. He started posting in this forum like a bull in a china shop. Metaphor: The sky was crying. The quality of mercy is not strained, it droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven. We are not getting very far in this conversation. ["getting v. far" is a physical journey metaphor applied to linguistic exchanges] Symbols: Abstract signs which bear no resemblance to their objects - words, algebraic/logic letters, morse code, numbers My argument is that productive analogies and metaphors are overwhelmingly though not exclusively graphic and image-based. I've still to see any examples of productive analogies purely derived from symbols (although I'm not denying them). I guess: "112233 is like 111222333" is a purely symbolic analogy - but it is also a METAsymbolic analogy - IOW an analogy directly about symbols. I'd like to see examples of networks of symbols of the kind beloved by Minsky & others (& perhaps Vlad & Cyc) producing purely symbolic analogies of value about the world That brings us to your: Ben:"As a very simple example, if Novamente's evolutionary learning engine has learned a procedure to play fetch, Novamente's inference engine may allow it to utilize this procedure as guidance in learning to play hide-and-seek, so that the system may learn to play hide-and-seek more easily than if it had never learned to play fetch. This sort of inferencing however involves a number of probabilistic inference rules all acting together in a coordinated way, it's not a single inference-step that I can just paste into an email." Sounds like a good analogy. If it can play fetch, it can play hide-and-seek. [And exactly the sort of thing that a true AGI must do - absolute heart of AGI]. The question, wh. I wouldn't think that complex to answer, is: how did it connect the action/activity of fetch, to the activity of hide-and-seek? (And that connection surely has nothing to do, essentially, with probability). [My first impression is that that's a graphic/imaginative analogy. It certainly would be, I'd argue, if a human or child made it]. Did the system/pet draw the analogy itself, without being told? P.S. COMMENT: This - going from fetch to hide-and-seek - is the first specific problem example I can remember in this forum of the general problem of AGI, i.e how do you go from learning and/or solving one activity, to learning and/or solving a totally different kind of activity. And you're not going to discuss it?!!! You/we/everyone should be discussing this sort of thing all the time! In the final analysis, to use another imaginative analogy, it's not much use talking endlessly about the wonderful engine of your guided missile, if you never talk about what it can actually hit - in this case, the actual problems that Novamente and other AGI's can solve. And if you don't, you're wasting a lot of valuable collective brainpower (worth much more presumably than your personal team). ----- This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=52937691-13b628
