In response to Charles Hixsons 10/12/2007 7:56 PM post: Different peoples minds probably work differently. For me dredging up of memories, including verbal memories, is an important part of my mental processes. Maybe that is because I have been trained as a lawyer.
I am not arguing against the fact that visual memories play an important role in human thinking. They do. I often do a lot of my best thinking in terms of images. What I am arguing is that other types of grounding play an important part as well. I am arguing that visual grounding is not necessarily the largest force in each and every mathematical thought. Yes, the human brain dedicates a lot of real estate to visual processing, but if you take all of the language, behavioral, emotional and higher level association areas, you have a lot of brain real estate dedicated to concepts that are either non-visual or only partially visual. We should not assume that all that brain real estate plays little or no role in most thinking. Of course, I wouldnt be surprised if visual memories and patterns are taking at least some part in the massively parallel spreading activation and inferencing in the sub-conscious that helps pop most thoughts up to consciousness -- without me even knowing it. But by similar reasoning I would also assume a lot of non-visual memories and patterns would also be taking part in such massive parallel inferencing. In many types of thinking I am consciously aware of words in my head much more than I am of images. Perhaps this is because I am a patent lawyer, and I have spent thousands of hours reading text in which many of the words have only loose association to concrete visual memories. And as a lawyer when I read such abstract texts, to the extent that I can sense what is in my consciousness and near consciousness, many of the words I read seem to derive their meaning largely from other concepts and memories that also seem to be largely defined in terms of words, although occasionally visual memories pop out. When I read The plaintiff is an Illinois corporation selling services for the maintenance of photocopiers it is probably not until I get to photocopiers than anything approaching a concrete image pops into my mind. Thus, at least from my personal experience, it seems that many concepts learned largely through words can be grounded to a significant degree in other concepts defined largely through words. Yes, at some level in the gen/comp pattern hierarchy and in episodic memory all of these concepts derive at least some of their meaning from visual memories. But for seconds at a time that does not seem to be the level of representation my consciousness is aware of. Does any body else on this list have similar episodes of what appears to be largely verbal conscious thought, or am I (a) out of touch with my own conscious processes, and/or (b) weird? Edward W. Porter Porter & Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----Original Message----- From: Charles D Hixson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 7:56 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [agi] The Grounding of Maths But what you're reporting is the dredging up of a memory. What would be the symbolism if in response to "4" came the question "How do you know that?" For me it's visual (and leads directly into the definition of "+" as an amalgamation of two disjunct groupings). Edward W. Porter wrote: > > (second sending--roughly 45 minutes after first sending with no > appearance on list) > > > Why can't grounding from language, syntax, musical patterns, and other > non-visual forms of grounding play a role in mathematical thinking? > > Why can't grounding in the form of abstract concepts learned from > hours of thinking about math and its transformations play an important > role. > > Because we humans are such multimedia machines, probably most of us > who are sighted have at least some visual associations tainting most > of our concepts -- including most of our mathematical concepts -- at > least somewhere in the gen/comp hierarchies representing them and the > memories and patterns that include them. > > I have always considered myself a visual thinker, and much of my AGI > thinking is visual, but if you ask me what is 2 + 2, it is a voice I > hear in my head that says 4, not a picture. It is not necessary that > visual reasoning be the main driving force in reasoning involving a > particular mathematical thought. To a certain extent math is a > language, and it would be surprising if linguistic patterns and > behaviors -- or at least patterns and behaviors partially derived from > them -- didnt play a large role in mathematical thinking. > > > Edward W. Porter > Porter & Associates > 24 String Bridge S12 > Exeter, NH 03833 > (617) 494-1722 > Fax (617) 494-1822 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email > To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: > http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; > <http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&;> ----- This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?&; ----- This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=53195293-1941f9
