MT: This has huge implications for AGI - you guys believe that an AGI must
be
programmed for its activities, I contend that free composition instead is
essential for truly adaptive, general intelligence and is the basis of
all
animal and human activities).
Ben: Spontaneous, creative self-organized activity is a key aspect of
Novamente
and many other AGI designs.
Ben,
You are saying that your pet presumably works at times in a non-programmed
way - spontaneously and creatively? Can you explain briefly the
computational principle(s) behind this, and give an example of where it's
applied, (exploration of an environment, say)? This strikes me as an
extremely significant, even revolutionary claim to make, and it would be a
pity if, as with your analogy claim, you simply throw it out again without
any explanation.
And I'm wondering whether you are perhaps confused about this, (or I have
confused you) - in the way you definitely are below. Genetic algorithms,
for example, and suchlike classify as programmed and neither truly
spontaneous nor creative.
Note that Baum asked me a while back what test I could provide that humans
engage in "free thinking." He, quite rightly, thought it a scientifically
significant claim to make, that demanded scientific substantiation.
My test is not a test, I stress though, of free will. But have you changed
your mind about this? It's hard though not a complete contradiction to
believe in a mind being spontaneously creative and yet not having freedom of
decision.
MT: I contend that the proper, *ideal* test is to record
humans' actual streams of thought about any problem
Ben: > While introspection is certainly a valid and important tool for
inspiring
work in AI and cog sci, it is not a test of anything. >
Ben,
This is a really major - and very widespread - confusion. A recording of
streams of thought is what it says - a direct or recreated recording of a
person's actual thoughts. So, if I remember right, some form of that NASA
recording of subvocalisation when someone is immediately thinking about a
problem, would classify as a record of their thoughts.
Introspection is very different - it is a report of thoughts, remembered at
a later, often much later time.
A record(ing) might be me saying "I want to kill you, you bastard " in an
internal daydream. Introspection might be me reporting later: "I got very
angry with him in my mind/ daydream." Huge difference. An awful lot of
scientists think, quite mistakenly, that the latter is the best science can
possibly hope to do.
Verbal protocols - getting people to think aloud about problems - are a sort
of halfway house (or better).
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