Ben, I agree, an evolved design has limits too, but the key difference between a contrived design and one that is allowed to evolve is that the evolved critter's intelligence is grounded in the context of its own 'experience', whereas the contrived one's intelligence is grounded in the experience of its creator, and subject to the limitations built into that conception of intelligence. For example, we really have no idea how we arrive at spontaneous insights (in the shower, for example). A chess master suddenly sees the game-winning move. We can be fairly certain that often, these insights are not the product of logical analysis. So if our conception of intelligence fails to explain these important aspects, our designs based on those conceptions will fail to exhibit them. An evolved intelligence, on the other hand, is not limited in this way, and has the potential to exhibit intelligence in ways we're not capable of comprehending.
[btw, I'm using the scare quotes around the word experience as it applies to AGI because it's a controversial word and I hope to convey the basic idea about experience without getting into technical details about it. I can get into that, if anyone thinks it necessary, just didn't want to get bogged down.] Furthermore, there are deeper epistemological issues with the difference between design and self-organization that get into the notion of autonomy as well (i.e., designs lack autonomy to the degree they are specified), but I'll save that for when I feel like putting everyone to sleep :-] Terren PS. As an aside, I believe spontaneous insight is likely to be an example of self-organized criticality, which is a description of the behavior of earthquakes, avalanches, and the punctuated equilibrium model of evolution. Which is to say, a sudden insight is like an avalanche of mental transformations, triggered by some minor event but the result of a build-up of dynamic tension. Self-organized criticality is explained by the late Per Bak in _How Nature Works_, a short, excellent read and an brilliant example of scientific and mathematical progress in the realm of complexity. --- On Mon, 6/30/08, Ben Goertzel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree that all designed systems have limitations, but I > also suggest > that all evolved systems have limitations. > > This is just the "no free lunch theorem" -- in > order to perform better > than random search at certain optimization tasks, a system > needs to > have some biases built in, and these biases will cause it > to work > WORSE than random search on some other optimization tasks. > > No AGI based on finite resources will ever be **truly** > general, be it > an engineered or evolved systems > > Evolved systems are far from being beyond running into dead > ends ... > their adaptability is far from infinite ... the > evolutionary process > itself may be endlessly creative, but in that sense so may > be the > self-modifying process of an engineered AGI ... > > -- Ben G > > On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 3:17 AM, Terren Suydam > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- On Mon, 6/30/08, Ben Goertzel > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> but I don't agree that predicting **which** > AGI designs can lead > >> to the emergent properties corresponding to > general intelligence, > >> is pragmatically impossible to do in an analytical > and rational way ... > > > > OK, I grant you that you may be able to do that. I > believe that we can be extremely clever in this regard. An > example of that is an implementation of a Turing Machine > within the Game of Life: > > > > http://rendell-attic.org/gol/tm.htm > > > > What a beautiful construction. But it's completely > contrived. What you're suggesting is equivalent, because > your design is contrived by your own intelligence. [I > understand that within the Novamente idea is room for > non-deterministic (for practical purposes) behavior, so it > doesn't suffer from the usual complexity-inspired > criticisms of purely logical systems.] > > > > But whatever achievement you make, it's just one > particular design that may prove effective in some set of > domains. And there's the rub - the fact that your > design is at least partially static will limit its > applicability in some set of domains. I make this argument > more completely here: > > > > > http://www.machineslikeus.com/cms/news/design-bad-or-why-artificial-intelligence-needs-artificial-life > > or http://tinyurl.com/3coavb > > > > If you design a robot, you limit its degrees of > freedom. And there will be environments it cannot get > around in. By contrast, if you have a design that is > capable of changing itself (even if that means from > generation to generation), then creative configurations can > be discovered. The same basic idea works in the mental arena > as well. If you specify the mental machinery, there will be > environments it cannot get around in, so to speak. There > will be important ways in which it is unable to adapt. You > are limiting your design by your own intelligence, which > though considerable, is no match for the creativity > manifest in a single biological cell. > > > > Terren > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > agi > > Archives: > http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: > http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > > Modify Your Subscription: > http://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC > Director of Research, SIAI > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible > objections must be > first overcome " - Dr Samuel Johnson > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > http://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=106510220-47b225 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
