> David, in the spirit of scientific objectivity, I just did a search for the > word "stupid" in all > of the 811 messages that I have ever posted to the AGI list.
> There were 58 matches, and I just laboriously analyzed every one of them. This is off the cuff but, Richard, if 1/8 of your messages included the word 'stupid', this could explain why the general consensus is that you've been insulting people's intelligence. On 8/3/08, Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ben Goertzel wrote: >> >> Goodness ... I find this whole thread has gotten a bit over-the-top ... >> but I guess it's at least humorous, in a perverse sort of way... >> >> For sure: the biggest obstacle in the way of human intellect creating >> superhuman AGI, is humans' emotional nature ;-p > > I am not sure I understand this response at all. > > Some serious accusations were made, so I checked them. > > The accusations were derogatory, and they turned out to be unfounded. > > You are saying that this is humorous? > > > Richard Loosemore > > > > >> >> On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 7:12 PM, Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >> >> David Clark wrote: >> >> Richard: >> >> I was one of the first people to help you get on the AGI list >> years ago and I have appreciated many of your emails but Ben's >> comments below are right on the money. >> >> Although I don't agree with many of the technical points made by >> Ed Porter, he is obviously very intelligent (as are you) and has >> much interesting information and enthusiasm to bring to the >> table concerning AGI. I look forward to his emails even more >> than most of the other posters on this list. >> >> I for one, very much appreciate the effort made by Ben in >> writing this email and I would appreciate more information on >> AGI and less chest thumping and ego in the emails. >> >> Calling other people's ideas stupid, ridiculous etc IS the same >> as calling other people the same and it hurts just as much. >> >> >> David, >> >> Several people have repeated the accusation that I am guilty of >> namecalling and engaging in personal attacks that are just as >> disgraceful as those that Ed Porter just delivered. >> >> You repeat the accusation yourself when you say "Calling other >> people's ideas stupid, ridiculous etc IS the same as calling other >> people the same." >> >> David, in the spirit of scientific objectivity, I just did a search >> for the word "stupid" in all of the 811 messages that I have ever >> posted to the AGI list. >> >> There were 58 matches, and I just laboriously analyzed every one of >> them. >> >> Of the 58 total, 41 were completely neutral references to some >> abstract thing that was 'stupid', or to phrases like 'stupidly >> simple', with no bearing on anything that a person on the list said >> (for example I once said "what if a stupid AI hacker were to..."). >> >> On 2 occasions I responded to Ed Porter by denying his accusations, >> and the word was not used against him. >> >> On one occasion I quoted Ed Porter saying to me "Despite your >> statement to the contrary --- despite your "FURY" --- I did get your >> point. Not everybody beside Richard Loosemore is stupid." This was >> intented to be a mild insult directed at me, although it is kind of >> confused (he meant to say "intelligent", so I suspect that this was >> a Freudian slip). >> >> On 12 occasions the word was used by someone else, and I just quoted >> it. The other person was not directing the word at me. >> >> On one occasion I used the word to refer, in the abstract, to some >> people on the SL4 list who had speculated that I may have fabricated >> my degree qualifications. This was NOT directed at the person I was >> talking to, and it was fully justified by the estraordinary behavior >> of the people involved. Here is the exact quote: "(Sorry for the >> plug, but you know the kind of stupid nonsense I have had to take >> from some unmentionable amateurs on these lists who attack arguments >> by making libelous accusations about a person's qualifications and >> credentials)". >> >> On one occasion I deliverd an indirect insult by saying that "[The >> mathematical terms] "Rings" and "Models" are appropriated terms, but >> the mathematicians involved would never be so stupid as to confuse >> them with the real things. Marcus Hutter and yourself are doing >> precisely that." I did not intend the rudeness, it slipped out as >> an accident of the way I was phrasing my thoughts, and when Ben >> pointed out that this was rude, I immediately accepted the blame and >> apologized with these words: "You got me bang to rights there >> guv'nor: I apologize for the "s" word. Please re-read, with the >> word "naive" substituted instead." >> >> -------------------------- >> >> So it seems that when we look at the evidence for me using this one >> word "stupid" to criticize other people's ideas, there was only one >> occasion. And even then it was just an accident of phrasing and it >> was implied, not direct. And, to top it all, I immediately >> apologized for the error. >> >> I have just done a lot of work to discover these statistics, and I >> think it would be fair to say that there is not a shred of evidence >> that I am in the habit of accusing anyone of being stupid, or even >> that I use the word 'stupid' to describe their ideas. >> >> What do you suppose would happen if we went and looked to see how >> many times I call other people's ideas "ridiculous"? >> >> Here you are: 31 matches. Most of them neutral comments like >> "ridiculously small", except for three that were pretty mild >> comments and one serious argument: >> >> (1) "... they then produce ridiculous definitions, like Hutter's...". >> >> (2) "I was really trying to make the point that a statement like >> "The singularity WILL end the human race" is completely ridiculous." >> >> (3) "That is just one example of how he pulls conclusions out of >> thin air. The first time I read this paper I found the whole thing >> too ridiculous to read after the first few times this happened." >> >> (4) One use of 'ridiculous' to respond to a damning insult and a >> slew of false criticisms from Josh Hall - he had said "I find your >> argument quotidian and lacking in depth...". Although I should not >> have been so offended, I was. I responded to this insult by saying >> "You said things about complex systems that were, quite frankly, >> ridiculous: Turing- machine equivalence, for example, has nothing to >> do with this.". >> >> >> So in a total of 811 posts there were only five places where I used >> the word 'stupid' or the word 'ridiculous'. One was an accident >> that I immediately apologized for. Two uses of 'ridiculous' were >> extremely mild, not directed at the person I was talking to, and >> both of them were pretty reasonable given the topic. One other use >> of 'ridiculous' was completely justificable (item 2 above). >> >> There was just one time when I used the word 'ridiculous' in a >> direct and angry attack on another person's statements, and that was >> after the other person had suddenly come out with a deliberate insult. >> >> Do you feel that this level of abusive behavior on my part justifies >> your comment that "Calling other people's ideas stupid, ridiculous >> etc IS the same as calling other people the same."? Bear in mind >> that in the course of yesterday evening Ed Porter threw at me a >> total of 14 personal insults, all of them of a type that I have >> never, ever used. >> >> Do you really, genuinely believe that when I say something like >> "That is just one example of how he pulls conclusions out of thin >> air. The first time I read this paper I found the whole thing too >> ridiculous to read after the first few times this happened", this >> behavior of mine is just as disgraceful as comments directed >> straight at my face like "It is a shame your intelligence is not >> freed from the childishness, and neediness, and dishonesty of your >> ego", and "if you are at all concerned with honesty and truth --- >> rather than personal pomposity ..."? >> >> >> >> >> Richard Loosemore >> >> P.S. If you want me to give you a copy of all the posts I have >> written, so you can analyze them for other words, please contact me >> off list and I will send them to you. >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> agi >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Ben Goertzel, PhD >> CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC >> Director of Research, SIAI >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> "Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must be first >> overcome " - Dr Samuel Johnson >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | Modify >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> >> Your Subscription [Powered by Listbox] <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=108809214-a0d121 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
