Mike, But this is horrible! If what you are saying is true, then research will barely progress.
On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 11:46 AM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Abram, > > The key distinction here is probably that some approach to AGI may be widely > accepted as having great *promise*. That has certainly been the case, > although I doubt actually that it could happen again. There were also no > robots of note in the past. Personally, I can't see any approach being > accepted now - and the general responses of this forum, I think, support > this - until it actually delivers on some form of GI. > > Mike, > > There are at least 2 ways this can happen, I think. The first way is > that a mechanism is theoretically proven to be "complete", for some > less-than-sufficient formalism. The best example of this is one I > already mentioned: the neural nets of the nineties (specifically, > feedforward neural nets with multiple hidden layers). There is a > completeness result associated with these. I quote from > http://www.learnartificialneuralnetworks.com/backpropagation.html : > > "Although backpropagation can be applied to networks with any number > of layers, just as for networks with binary units it has been shown > (Hornik, Stinchcombe, & White, 1989; Funahashi, 1989; Cybenko, 1989; > Hartman, Keeler, & Kowalski, 1990) that only one layer of hidden units > su ces to approximate any function with finitely many discontinuities > to arbitrary precision, provided the activation functions of the > hidden units are non-linear (the universal approximation theorem). In > most applications a feed-forward network with a single layer of hidden > units is used with a sigmoid activation function for the units. " > > This sort of thing could have contributed to the 50 years of > less-than-success you mentioned. > > The second way this phenomenon could manifest is more a personal fear > than anything else. I am worried that there really might be partial > principles of mind that could seem to be able to do everything for a > time. The possibility is made concrete for me by analogies to several > smaller domains. In linguistics, the grammar that we are taught in > high school does almost everything. In logic, 1st-order systems do > almost everything. In sequence learning, hidden markov models do > almost everything. So, it is conceivable that some AGI method will be > missing something fundamental, yet seem for a time to be > all-encompassing. > > On Mon, Aug 18, 2008 at 5:58 AM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> >> Abram:I am worried-- worried that an AGI system based on anything less >> than >> the one most powerful logic will be able to fool AGI researchers for a >> long time into thinking that it is capable of general intelligence. >> >> Can you explain this to me? (I really am interested in understanding your >> thinking). AGI's have a roughly 50 year record of total failure. They have >> never shown the slightest sign of general intelligence - of being able to >> cross domains. How do you think they will or could fool anyone? >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------- >> agi >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ >> Modify Your Subscription: >> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com >> > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=111637683-c8fa51 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
