Hello, I just subscribed to this list, overwelmed by the number of posts by the way. I can sum up my take on artificial intelligence pretty briefly for all of you; that is to say, It is Impossible... But, you might be able to manufacture a structure sutable for a REAL intelligence to occupy/possess/incarnate into. Look in that direction. Form follows function, most of the fearful, fallible aspects of human intelligence are directly related to our tenuous position survivalwise, design a safe, consistant and secure structure for real (not "artificial"") intelligence to form inside of, and it will be a safe, consistant and secure intelligence... We need it. -eh---------- Original Message ---------- To: ([email protected]) From: Vladimir Nesov ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) Subject: Re: [agi] self organization Date: 9/16/2008 2:55:22a
> Well, I didn't write in this thread about Friendliness (apart from the > last two sentences of the last message, which is a hypothetical so > impossible I had no right to draw it, really). It is bad terminology > to call evolution intelligence, it is a completely different > optimization process even if it can eventually lead to intelligence. I > didn't merely imply that "self-organization" is far from being a key > to Friendliness (kind of obvious, this), but far from being a key to > intelligence in general. If you are trying to create open-ended > evolutionary process, it might be an important stepstone, but again > for reasons different from aesthetic properties. At least with > evolution, you have known regularities to start from. > > Don't approach debate as a combat, don't fight the arguments. Improve > on them, and help your opponent in destroying your own mistakes. > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 5:05 AM, Terren Suydam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >wrote: > > Vlad, > > > > At this point, we ought to acknowledge that we just have different > > approaches. You're trying to hit a very small target accurately and > > precisely. I'm not. It's not important to me the precise details of how > > a self-organizing system would actually self-organize, what form that > > would take or what goals would emerge for that system beyond > > persistence/replication. We've already gone over the Friendliness debate > > so I won't go any further with that here. > > > > My approach is to try and recreate the processes that led to the > > emergence of life, and of intelligence. I see life and intelligence as > > strongly interrelated, yet I don't see either as dependent on our > > particular biological substrate. Life I define as a self-organizing > > process that does work (expends energy) to maintain its > > self-organization (which is to say it maintains a boundary between > > itself and the environment, in which the entropy inside is lower than > > the entropy outside). Life at the simplest possible level is therefore a > > kind of hard-coded intelligence. My hunch is that anything sufficiently > > advanced to be considered generally intelligent needs to be alive in the > > above sense. But suffice it to say, pursuit of AGI is not in my short > > term plans. > > > > Just as an aside, because sometimes this feels combative, or overly > > defensive: I have not come on to this list to try and persuade anyone to > > adopt my approach, or to dissuade others from theirs. Rather, I came > > here to gather feedback and criticism of my thoughts, to defend them > > when challenged, and to change my mind when it seems like my current > > ideas are inadequate. And of course, to provide the same kind of > > feedback for others when I have something to contribute. In that spirit, > > I'm grateful for your feedback. I'm also very curious to see the results > > of your approach, and those of others here... I may be critical of what > > you're trying to do, but that doesn't mean I think you shouldn't do it > > (in most cases anyway :-] ). > > > > -- > Vladimir Nesov > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://causalityrelay.wordpress.com/ > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > 00f > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=114414975-3c8e69 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
