The goal of chess is well defined: Avoid being checkmate and try to checkmate your opponent.
What checkmate means can be specified formally. Humans mainly learn chess from playing chess. Obviously their knowledge about other domains are not sufficient for most beginners to be a good chess player at once. This can be proven empirically. Thus an AGI would not learn chess completely different from all what we now. It would learn from experience which is one of the most common kinds of learning. I am sure that everyone who learns chess by playing against chess computers and is able to learn good chess playing (which is not sure as also not everyone can learn to be a good mathematician) will be able to be a good chess player against humans. My first posting in this thread shows the very weak point in the argumentation of those people who say that social and other experiences are needed to play chess. You suppose knowledge must be available from another domain to solve problems of the domain of chess. But everything of chess in on the chessboard itself. If you are not able to solve chess problems from chess alone then you are not able to solve certain solvable problems. And thus you cannot call your AI AGI. If you give an AGI all facts which are sufficient to solve a problem then your AGI must be able to solve the problem using nothing else than these facts. If you do not agree with this, then how should an AGI know which experiences in which other domains are necessary to solve the problem? The magic you use is the overestimation of real-world experiences. It sounds as if the ability to solve arbitrary problems in arbitrary domains depend essentially on that your AGI plays in virtual gardens and speaks often with other people. But this is completely nonsense. No one can play good chess by those experiences. Thus such experiences are not sufficient. On the other hand there are programs which definitely do not have such experiences and outperform humans in chess. Thus those experiences are neither sufficient nor necessary to play good chess and emphasizing on such experiences is mystifying AGI, similar as it is done by the doubters of AGI who always argue with Goedel or quantum physics which in fact has no relevance for practical AGI at all. - Matthias Trent Waddington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote Gesendet: Donnerstag, 23. Oktober 2008 07:42 An: agi@v2.listbox.com Betreff: Re: [agi] If your AGI can't learn to play chess it is no AGI On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 3:19 PM, Dr. Matthias Heger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I do not think that it is essential for the quality of my chess who had > taught me to play chess. > I could have learned the rules from a book alone. > Of course these rules are written in a language. But this is not important > for the quality of my chess. > > If a system is in state x then it is not essential for the future how x was > generated. > Thus a programmer can hardcode the rules of chess in his AGI and then, > concerning chess the AGI would be in the same state as if someone teaches > the AGI the chess rules via language. > > The social aspect of learning chess is of no relevance. Sigh. Ok, let's say I grant you the stipulation that you can hard code the rules of chess some how. My next question is, in a goal-based AGI system, what goal are you going to set and how are you going to set it? You've ruled out language, so you're going to have to hard code the goal too, so excuse my use of language: "Play good chess" Ohhhhh.. that sounds implementable. Maybe you'll give it a copy of GNUChess and let it go at it.. but I've known *humans* who learnt to play chess that way and they get trounced by the first human they play against. How are you going to go about making an AGI that can learn chess in a complete different way to all the known ways of learning chess? Or is the AGI supposed to figure that out? I don't understand why so many of the people on this list seem to think AGI = magic. Trent ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
