>> People seem to debate programming languages and OS's endlessly, and this >> list is no exception.
Yes. And like all other debates there are good points and bad points. :-) >> To make progress on AGI, you just gotta make *some* reasonable choice and >> start building Strongly agree. Otherwise it's just empty theorizing. But sometimes it's worth gathering up your learning from what you have and making a fresh start (a la Eric Raymond). You may not be at that point yet . . . . you may be past that point since a lot of the stuff that OpenCog is depending upon seems to have been lost in the mists of time (to judge by some of the e-mails among team members). The OpenCog documents are a great start (though it's too bad that some important stuff seems to have been lost before they were created and now remains to be rediscovered -- though that's pretty typical of *any* large long-term project) >> there's no choice that's going to please everyone, since this stuff is so >> contentious... On the other hand, there are projects where most of the people are pleased with them (or, at least, not displeased) and horrible projects. You seem to be pretty much on the correct side with many of your naysayers more of the variety keeping you honest than really actively disagreeing with you. Actually I don't debate language and OS endlessly -- indeed, I generally don't argue them at all if you truly understand what I'm arguing (i.e. platform which is distinct from either though it may be dependent upon or include both -- to it's detriment) -- but I do bring them up periodically (or rather respond to others brining them up) just to keep people abreast of changing circumstances (admittedly, as I see/evaluate them). I'd debate your coding on Windows comment (since I don't code on Windows even though Windows is the operating system that my computer is running) but I think we've reached the point where continuing to agree to disagree pending further developments is best. :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Ben Goertzel To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2008 6:38 PM Subject: **SPAM** Re: [agi] On programming languages Strong agreement with what you say but then effective rejection as a valid point because language issues frequently are a total barrier to entry for people who might have been able to do the algorithms and structures and cognitive architecture. I'll even go so far as to use myself as an example. I can easily do C++ (since I've done so in the past) but all the baggage around it make me consider it not worth my while. I certainly won't hesitate to use what is learned on that architecture but I'll be totally shocked if you aren't massively leap-frogged because of the inherent shortcomings of what you're trying to work with. Somewhat similarly, I've done coding on Windows before, but I dislike the operating system quite a lot, so in general I try to avoid any projects where I have to use it. However, if I found some AGI project that I thought were more promising than OpenCog/Novamente on the level of algorithms, philosophy-of-mind and structures ... and, egads, this project ran only on Windows ... I would certainly not hesitate to join that project, even though my feeling is that any serious large-scale software project based exclusively on Windows is going to be seriously impaired by its OS choice... In short, I just don't think these issues are **all that** important. They're important, but having the right AGI design is far, far more so. People seem to debate programming languages and OS's endlessly, and this list is no exception. There are smart people on multiple sides of these debates. To make progress on AGI, you just gotta make *some* reasonable choice and start building ... there's no choice that's going to please everyone, since this stuff is so contentious... -- Ben G ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
