Well, you need to distinguish between A) "the contemporary, von Neumann computer as a metaphor"
and B) "the abstract, mathematical computer as a theoretical framework" These are really quite different things ... -- Ben G On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Ben, > > He is v. explicitly talking about a "paradigm shift" and the > mind-as-computer as just one in a series of technological metaphors. Perhaps > this will be clearer if you look at his latest book The Continuity of Mind > on Amazon, where you can read the introduction. (Sheer philosophy-of-science > commonsense tells you that at least broadly he has to be right - IOW the > computer as we know it, will sooner or later be replaced by another > radically more sophisticated machine). > > Ben: > > I just want to note that there is no real distinction btw > continuous-variable models like this as typically used, and computable, > Turing-machine-type models. > > For instance, biologists do detailed simulations of the continuous > variables underlying neural activity, on digital computers. And nonlinear > continuous-variable equations are normally solved using computational > algorithms. > > In principle, the real number line contains uncomputable numbers. In every > single practical application, these are irrelevant, and one could ignore > them and use only a finite set of numbers instead. > > I outlined the detailed reasons why this is the case, in a recent blog post > that was already discussed on this list, > > > http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.com/2008/10/are-uncomputable-entities-useless-for.html > > -- Ben G > > On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 6:43 PM, Mike Tintner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> This is interesting because it challenges the discrete, stepped, Turing >> machine conception of thought with a continuous dynamics model. {If anyone >> knows of more stuff along these lines, I'd be v. interested]. Here's a pdf >> of Spivey's ideas. >> >> >> http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary;jsessionid=5E238B3B3E62E2AF7151EF8B31599E4D?doi=10.1.1.92.3260 >> >> >> *ICBS SEMINAR >> Friday, November 7, 2008 >> **11:am - 12:30 pm >> 5101 Tolman Hall >> * >> * Michael Spivey, **Department of Cognitive Science, UC Merced >> * >> >> *"Continuous Temporal Dynamics in Real-time Cognition"* >> ** >> >> Rather than a sequence of logical operations performed on discrete >> symbols, real-time cognition is better described as continuously changing >> patterns of neuronal activity. The continuity in these dynamics indicates >> that, in between describable states of mind, much of our mental activity >> does not lend itself to the linguistic labels relied on by much of >> psychology. I will discuss eye-tracking and computer-mouse-tracking >> evidence for this temporal continuity in spoken word recognition, sentence >> comprehension, categorization, and even decision-making. I will also >> provide geometric visualizations of mental activity depicted as a continuous >> trajectory through a neuronal state space. In this theoretical framework, >> close visitations of labeled attractors may constitute word recognition >> events and object recognition events, but the majority of the mental >> trajectory traverses unlabeled regions of state space, resulting in >> multifarious mixtures of mental states. >> >> >> >> For more about ICBS: http://icbs.berkeley.edu/ >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> Josephine O'Shaughnessy -Human Resources >> Helen Wills Neuroscience Institute (HWNI) >> 3210F Tolman Hall MC 3192 >> University of California, Berkeley >> Berkeley, CA 94720 >> ph (510) 643-1274 >> fax: off-campus (510) 666-2593 >> fax: on-campus 6-2593 >> >> ------------------------------ >> *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> >> <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | >> Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription >> <http://www.listbox.com> >> > > > > -- > Ben Goertzel, PhD > CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC > Director of Research, SIAI > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher > a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, > build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, > cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, > program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. > Specialization is for insects." -- Robert Heinlein > > > ------------------------------ > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > > ------------------------------ > *agi* | Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> > <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> | > Modify<https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;>Your Subscription > <http://www.listbox.com> > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -- Robert Heinlein ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=117534816-b15a34 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
