Ego death! This is not as pernicious as it sounds. The death/rebirth trial is a standby of the psilocybin excursion. One realizes one's self has vanished and is reincarnated into all the strangeness of life on earth as if being born. Very much an experience of the physical vessel being re-filled with new spirit stuff, some new soul overly given to wonder at it all. A sensation at the heart of most tryptamine raptures, I think... certainly more overlaid with alien imagery when induced by say psilocin than say, five methoxy dmt. But with almost all the tryptamine/indole hallucinogens this experience of "user reboot" is often there
As if the user, not the machine, is rebooting. Worthy, but outside list scope ._. On 11/23/08, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ben, > > > > I googled "ego loss" and found a lot of first person accounts of various > experiences. From an AGI/brain science standpoint they were quite > interesting, but I can see why you might not want such account to be on this > list, other than perhaps if they were copied from other sites, and > accompanied by third party deconstruction from a brain science or AGI > standpoint. > > > > In fact, some of the account were disturbing, and were actually written to > be cautionary tails. Some of these accounts described "ego death. " Ego > death appears to me to be quite distinct from what I had thought of as ego > loss, because it appears to be associated with a sense of fearing death > (which presumably one would not do if one had lost one's ego), which in some > instances occurred after, or intermitantly with, periods of having sensed a > lost of ego, and was associated with a feat that one was permanently loosing > that sense of self that would be necessary for normal human existence. > Several people reported having disturbing repercussions from such trips for > months or longer. > > > > But some of the people who reported ego loss said they felt it was a > valuable experience. > > > > I forget exactly what various entheogens are supposed to do the brain, from > a measurable brain science standpoint, but several of the subjective > accounts by people claiming to have taken very strong dosages of entheogens > described experiences that would be compatable with loss of normal brain > control mechanism to maintain their normal control, or perhaps any control > at all. Perhaps this is because overall activation is occurring at such a > high rate that it cannot be properly controlled, or perhap because the > control mechanisms themselves are being interfered with. > > > > Several of the descriptions of ego loss, particularly those associated with > less extreme dosages, did not seem that dissimilar in kind, but probably > quite dissimilar in degree, from the minor types of ego loss I have > experience briefly while trying to experientially be one with my > surroundings, or when doing breathing meditation, without the aid of illegal > substances. > > > > Ed Porter > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 7:46 PM > To: agi@v2.listbox.com > Subject: Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of > consciousness > > > > I don't feel motivated to kill this thread in my role as list > > moderator, and I agree that what's on or off topic is fairly fuzzy ... > > but I just have a sense that discussions of various varieties of > > drug-induced (or otherwise induced) states of exalted consciousness is > > a bit off-topic for an AGI list ... anyway I don't feel it quite right > > to share my own experiences in this regard in this forum ;-) > > > > Ben G > > > > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 5:21 PM, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Ben, > >> > >> > >> > >> It's your list, so you get to decide what is off topic. > >> > >> > >> > >> Are you implying all discussion of subjectively describable aspect of > human > >> conscious experience is off topic? > >> > >> > >> > >> At least in my own experience, thinking about introspective subjective > >> experiences has played a major role in my thinking about AGI. Thus, I > tend > >> to have a bias toward thinking discussions of such thinking are relevant > to > >> AGI. > >> > >> > >> > >> If p-consciousness, such as discussed in Richard's paper, is relevant to > >> AGI, then why isn't a-consciousness? > >> > >> > >> > >> Or, perhaps, your implication about what is off topic was more narrow? > >> > >> > >> > >> That is what I assumed, and that is why, in the post you responding to > >> below, I was asking if there were any describable non-entheogenic aspects > of > >> the ego-loss experience, other than what I had already described. > >> > >> > >> > >> Ed Porter > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:04 PM > >> To: agi@v2.listbox.com > >> Subject: Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of > >> consciousness > >> > >> > >> > >> Goodness.. I feel like > >> > >> > >> > >> a) it is mighty hard to draw distinctions about these kinds of > >> > >> experiences in ordinary, informal language... > >> > >> > >> > >> b) this is kinda off topic for the list ;-) > >> > >> > >> > >> ben > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >>> Eric, > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> If, as your post below implies, you have experienced "ego loss," --- > >>> please > >> > >>> tell me --- how, if at all, was it different than the sense of oneness > >>> with > >> > >>> the surround world that I described in my post of Fri 11/21/2008 8:02 PM > >> > >>> which started this named thread. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> That is, how was it different than merely having, for an extended period > >>> of > >> > >>> time, a oneness with sensual experience of the computational richness of > >> > >>> external reality around (or perhaps of just ones breathing and feelings > it > >> > >>> engenders) --- a oneness uninterrupted by awareness of oneself as a > >> > >>> something separate from such sensations or by the chattering of the > >>> chatbot > >> > >>> most of us have inside our heads --- other than for the standard effects > >>> on > >> > >>> sensations and emotions one would routinely associate with being > >> > >>> entheogenned. > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Ed Porter > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >> > >>> From: Eric Burton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >>> Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:40 AM > >> > >>> To: agi@v2.listbox.com > >> > >>> Subject: Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of > >> > >>> consciousness > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> Hey, ego loss is attendant with even modest doses of LSD or > >> > >>> > >> > >>> psilocybin. At ~ 700 mics I found that effect to be very much > >> > >>> > >> > >>> background > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> On 11/21/08, Ed Porter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> Ben, > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> "Entheogens!" > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> What a great word/euphemism. > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> Is it pronounced like "Inns" (where travelers sleep) + "Theo" (short for > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> "Theodore") + "gins"(a subset of liquors I normally avoid like the > >>>> plague, > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> except in the occasional summer gin and tonic with lime)? > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> What is the respective emphasis given to each of these three parts in > the > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> proper pronunciations. > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> It is a word that would be deeply appreciated by many at my local > >> > >>>> Unitarian > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> Church. > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> Ed Porter > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> From: Ben Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 7:11 PM > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> To: agi@v2.listbox.com > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> Subject: Re: [agi] A paper that actually does solve the problem of > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> consciousness > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>>> When I was in college and LSD was the rage, one of the main goals of > the > >> > >>> > >> > >>>>> heavy duty heads was "ego loss" which was to achieve a sense of cosmic > >> > >>> > >> > >>>>> oneness with all of the universe. It was commonly stated that 1000 > >> > >>> > >> > >>>>> micrograms was the ticket to "ego loss." I never went there. Nor have > >>>>> I > >> > >>> > >> > >>>>> ever achieved cosmic oneness through meditation, although I have > >>>>> achieved > >> > >>> > >> > >>>>> temporary (say fifteen or thirty seconds) feeling of deep peaceful > >>>>> bliss. > >> > >>> > >> > >>>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>>> Perhaps you have been more brave (acid wise) or much lucky or > >>>>> disciplined > >> > >>> > >> > >>>>> meditation wise, and have achieve a seen of oneness with the cosmic > >> > >>> > >> > >>>>> consciousness. If so, I tip my hat (and Colbert wag of the finger) to > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> you. > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> Not a great topic for public mailing list discussion but .. uh . yah . > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> But it's not really so much about the dosage ... entheogens are tools > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> and it's all about what you do with them ;-) > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> ben > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> ------------------------------------------- > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> agi > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> Modify Your Subscription: > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> > >>> ________________________________ > >> > >>> agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Ben Goertzel, PhD > >> > >> CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC > >> > >> Director of Research, SIAI > >> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >> > >> "The empires of the future are the empires of the mind." > >> > >> -- Sir Winston Churchill > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------- > >> > >> agi > >> > >> Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > >> > >> RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > >> > >> Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > >> > >> Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription > > > > > > > > -- > > Ben Goertzel, PhD > > CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC > > Director of Research, SIAI > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > "The empires of the future are the empires of the mind." > > -- Sir Winston Churchill > > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > > agi > > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------- > agi > Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now > RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ > Modify Your Subscription: > https://www.listbox.com/member/?&; > Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com > ------------------------------------------- agi Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=120640061-aded06 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
