Hi Brian,

Below are responses to your post:

> I assume you mean 12 systems?
Yes, 12 systems; I use the terms system and model interchangeably.

> So you are running all 12 systems over the same data and timeframe to get the 
> trade series for each?
I run all 12 systems are over the same portfolio of data.  I have a primary 
timeframe, but I'm evaluating several timeframes.

> Are you collecting the trade series as $, points or %?
I'm not sure what you mean.  I think of trades as instruments, entries, exits 
(stop and sometimes a target), and trade sizes.  Dollars, points, and 
percentages are different views of the trade output.  I personally prefer 
comparing percentages than absolute dollars or points because when working with 
futures, each instrument can have a different tick size, point value, and 
margin.

> How do you export to a database?
>From Automatic Analysis, File->Export creates a comma separated file that can 
>be imported into a database table.  I use MS Access primarily because I have 
>it available in my version of MS Office.

> Do you find that open trade drawdown is important?
When trading futures, open trade drawdown is very important because trades are 
"marked-to-market" every day.  Margin requirements must be met each day for 
overnight positions.

Regards,

David


--- In [email protected], "brian_z111" <brian_z...@...> wrote:
>
> Hello David,
> 
> Thanks for keepting discussion on this issue going.
> 
> I tried MSA a few years back .... thought it was one of the better tools 
> around. It seems to have developed a bit since then.
> 
> It has been reported in this forum before (as a MonteCarlo tool).
> 
> 
> A couple of questions to help me with my own private efforts:
> 
> > I faced the same issue except I have 12 models 
> 
> I assume you mean 12 systems?
> 
> > I decided to run my models separately in AmiBroker and then export the 
> > trades to a database.
> 
> So you are running all 12 systems over the same data and timeframe to get the 
> trade series for each?
> 
> Are you collecting the trade series as $, points or %?
> 
> How do you export to a database?
> 
> Which database?
> 
> >The caveat is that MSA uses trade information for all it's >statistics and 
> >has no knowledge of the chart data used to create >those trades.
> 
> IMO using mathematical models, based on the trade series, considered as the 
> return of the investment, is the best way to compare portfolio outcomes. As 
> Howard pointed out in one of his posts, we do have to be very careful when 
> making assumptions based on non-correlation because it can disapear quite 
> quickly (I believe non - correlation, between instruments and markets etc, 
> has been falling, over the last decade or two, because of the growth in 
> algorithmic trading and/or analysis.)
> 
>  >So statistics like Max System Drawdown are different than the much >more 
> accurate AmiBroker MDD because AmiBroker can look at each chart >bar and 
> determine the actual intra-trade MDD while MSA only knows >the entry and exit 
> prices of each trade.
> 
> Do you find that open trade drawdown is important?
> I tend to think that it is irrelevant if the system  uses stops .... any 
> intratrade loss must always be less than the stop loss or the trade would 
> have closed, on stop?
> 
> I am also inclined to the view that intratrade equity is a hypothetical 
> figure ... the outcome of the trade isn't known until it is closed.  
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Here is the link to Howard's post that I referred to prev.
> He says that he is including Portfolio Construction in his next book 
> (Advanced AB) ... due out at the end of 09.
> 
> http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/138075
> 
> 
> KEYWORDS
> 
> OPTIMAL PORTFOLIO CONSTRUCTION MODELING
> 
> --- In [email protected], "dbwyatt_1999" <dbw451@> wrote:
> >
> > Soham,
> > 
> > I faced the same issue except I have 12 models that use a portfolio of 27 
> > futures instruments.  The issues involved with running multiple systems 
> > simultaneously are much more difficult than dividing the system logic by 
> > symbols or watchlists.  For example because you are considering trending 
> > and counter-trending systems, there is the possibility of being long and 
> > short in the same instrument in two separate models each with a different 
> > trade size.  I tried combining my models in AmiBroker, but my custom stop 
> > handling and dynamic position sizing just became a nightmare to manage.  
> > After reading through most of the multiple systems threads on this forum, I 
> > started thinking about alternative solutions.
> > 
> > I decided to run my models separately in AmiBroker and then export the 
> > trades to a database.  From there I would write a simplistic back-tester 
> > that would step through the combined trades, recalculating the trade 
> > quantities using a shared equity pool.  At this point I did some googling 
> > to see if there was any Excel, or C# libraries, or any other software that 
> > would give me a simplistic back-tester framework.  I thought about feeding 
> > the trades back into AmiBroker as signals, but that would amount to a lot 
> > of AFL code to handle the models by scaling in and out positions with the 
> > possibility of managing long and short positions simultaneously.  Also I 
> > want to vary the number and mix of models I test in the future, so the AFL 
> > programming would have to be generic which makes the task even more 
> > daunting.
> > 
> > Anyways through my googling, I found a software product called Market 
> > System Analyzer by Adaptrade (www.adaptrade.com) that already had 
> > implemented the approach I was pursuing.  The primary purpose of the MSA 
> > software is to explore position sizing models (all of which I think can be 
> > written in AmiBroker).  I'm able to import my AmiBroker trades into the MSA 
> > software.  MSA can treat my 12 models as a single portfolio and generate a 
> > combined equity curve and other back-tester statistics from a shared equity 
> > pool.  It recalculates trade sizes (i.e. shares) based on the position 
> > sizing model selected.  The caveat is that MSA uses trade information for 
> > all it's statistics and has no knowledge of the chart data used to create 
> > those trades.  So statistics like Max System Drawdown are different than 
> > the much more accurate AmiBroker MDD because AmiBroker can look at each 
> > chart bar and determine the actual intra-trade MDD while MSA only knows the 
> > entry and exit prices of each trade.  
> > 
> > MSA has been a decent solution for me to fill a void that I wasn't able to 
> > complete with AmiBroker.  Instead of spending days or weeks writing my own 
> > multiple system handling logic, within a few hours I had all my 35,000 
> > trades loaded into MSA and was creating the combined system statistics I 
> > was after all without any programming (other than a database query to 
> > export the AmiBroker trades by symbol into an MSA import format).
> > 
> > I'm weary to bring up another software product on the AmiBroker user forum 
> > especially since AB can do about 90% of what MSA does, but in this case I 
> > have not found anything posted that has given me a doable solution to 
> > combining multiple back-testing trading systems.
> > 
> > Best of luck with your system development.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > David
> > 
> > --- In [email protected], "Mike" <sfclimbers@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You could probably use the same technique as is used for pairs trading. 
> > > Specifically, check for the name of the symbol and apply the applicable 
> > > logic.
> > > 
> > > http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/amibroker/message/134492
> > > 
> > > If you don't want to have a bunch of if (Name() == ...)statements, you 
> > > could probably add some symbols to watchlist1, the others to watchlist2, 
> > > all of the above to watchlist3. Then use InWatchList() in your code 
> > > instead of checking the name. You would run your 
> > > backtst/optimization/etc. on watchlist3. The danger of that though is if 
> > > you add a symbol to watchlist3 but forget to also add it to either 
> > > watchlist1 or watchlist2.
> > > 
> > > if (InWatchList(1)) {
> > >   ... // Strategy 1
> > > } else if (InWatchList(2)) {
> > >   ... // Strategy 2
> > > }
> > > 
> > > Any custom money management would probably have to be implemented in 
> > > custom backtester code.
> > > 
> > > Mike
> > > 
> > > --- In [email protected], "Soham" <sohamdas@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Any help on this?
> > > > --- In [email protected], "Soham" <sohamdas@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello Everyone,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I believe, I have seen this question here itself or one of its forms. 
> > > > > But given the "fantastic" search results of Yahoo groups, I am 
> > > > > posting this once again.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is there any method, to simulate multiple strategy on a portfolio 
> > > > > level?For example, consider I want to use a trend following system 
> > > > > for Cotton, Coffee, Copper, EuroDollars and FAZ. While, I want to 
> > > > > "simultaneously" simulate a trend fading system for SPX,NDX and RYDER.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is there any way to do it?
> > > > > 
> > > > > And very related to this stuff, the one possible way, I can think of 
> > > > > is, using multithreaded programming. Is it possible? Interfacing say 
> > > > > C# with Ami and handling the two strategies with their own money mgmt 
> > > > > algos, and instruments etc?
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is to be reminded that, they draw their "juice"[$$$] from the same 
> > > > > account.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks, for any light on this
> > > > > Soham
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>


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