I know someone who will be very happy... LOL Karel, WLM 8.1 is out since yesterday and.. they changed the ccard.. now the new ccard of WLM 8.1 follows your design...lol when I get home, I'll send screenies.. it's much more usable now...
KKRT On Fri, Feb 02, 2007 at 06:43:24PM +0100, Karel Demeyer wrote: > I'm back from my meeting and the good news is I'll work as stagiaire > for the newscrew of the biggest Media-concern (VRT) of Belgium... I > feel very excited :). Anyway, in 2 hours I'm off to Austria for a > week, but I want to call up everyone once again to give an opinion on > this thread. I want to do a great deal of the coding if you feel for > this design, but I want some back-up... I don't want to push a > "decision" before 0.97, but I still push :p. > > See you back in a week or a bit more, > > Karel > > 2007/2/2, Karel Demeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > <about spaces inline> > > > I guess you're right, if it's as a plugin, it should be ok, or maybe > > > core, but a plugin (powertool?) would allow > > > the user to enable it. > > > > idem dito. > > > > > > > > what's so special about spaces? lol, nothing, the same as winks, nothing > > > special about it, but still, the human > > > brain is weird because some people think it's something important... > > > anyways, it's a feature, it's something, > > > it's information, it's "spaces info", and it has its own window, I didn't > > > say it *should* have its own window, I > > > just said, I always thought of it as if it was a "spaces info" window, > > > nothing more. > > > What I like about it though, compared to prop window is that it shows > > > what people want to see in a simple, small > > > window. + the star is about spaces and without the star, people wouldn't > > > get to open that window, usually people > > > click there to see the 'updated space info', not the phone number of the > > > user, or whatever. > > > > Well, in WLM, the ccard isn't a "spaces window" either. a click on a > > buddy icon opens the "properties window" (ccard) too. My mockup card > > should be opened the same way and should show the same info. Pressing > > "more >>" shows even more info and a way to tweak some settings (you > > can't do this in WLM). The star is just a notification icon and > > pressing it does the same as pressing a buddy icon, right ? > > > > > > > > > > > nah, I don't want a separated window for spaces info only, I just said > > > that's how I saw it. If you remember in > > > my first mails about the feature, I was actually suggesting we have a > > > "full toplevel window where we show all > > > the data in the same way as the properties window", that's what I was > > > suggesting. > > > I guess I then liked the ccard when I saw your code (the ccard plugin) > > > and I just loved the way you did it :) > > > and I thought it would be great to live up to the words "amsn, same > > > look&feel as MSN messenger"... > > > Now I don't know, I just think we're not wasting much by giving the users > > > that eye candy everyone loves M$ > > > for... (no debate, I know, not everyone :p) > > > > My mockup gives allmost the same experience as on WLM for 90% of the > > users I guess. > > > > > > > I don't really have objections to your mockup apart that I'm afraid it > > > might turn up as a cluttered window... > > > hey, how about a 'spaces info' window in 'basic/less info' mode and a > > > 'properties window' in the 'advanced' mode > > > ? was it what you were suggesting ? or you wanted more info than just > > > spaces info, in the 'basic' mode ? damn, > > > can't remember... > > > > Maybe I'll have to PM you to explain it more clear ? check the > > mockups and read the mails. > > > > I have to go now, I'll quickly say: i'm against "pages" on teh ccard. > > it's not a good UI-thing as the window shows exactly the same wand we > > can't have a good "change page" animation. wehn you "expand" the > > space instead, you can see all info at once again, in an overseeable > > way. also, the info you saw when i wasn't expanded stays at the same > > position. have to go now. > > > > Karel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mockup, you left the two arrows to 'switch ccard'. I > > > > > > > always thought the idea of 'switching the ccard' was > > > > > > > stupid and I would have voted to remove it and leave just a > > > > > > > single window, not a double sided window. I don't > > > > > > > know if you'd like this idea but I'll tell anyway, how about all > > > > > > > those 'extra' informations be put in the > > > > > > > reverse side of the ccard, like the phone numbers, last login, > > > > > > > last message, client id, etc.. > > > > > > > that's optional, it can be left out, but I'm just trying to > > > > > > > follow your idea of "all the info in the same > > > > > > > place". > > > > > > The switch buttons where a mistake, they should be removed :). I > > > > > > started this mockup from teh old ccards and forgot to remove 'm. > > > > > > > > > > > yeah, I knew you forgot them, which is why I said, I wonder if you'd > > > > > like the idea of actually using the reverse > > > > > instead of removing it... > > > > > it was just an idea in order to have all the info in the ccard, > > > > > because we won't be able to put it all in 'one > > > > > page' without cluttering the info. > > > > > > > > I think the "back" is a bad idea as we can't make the card look like > > > > it "turns" when you press that button and (for my mockup), we have > > > > more info to show. THe back in WLM is like the "advanced" info we'd > > > > show. ONly, we'll have more. We could howerer, have an "expand" > > > > button on that same spot (a little unobtrusive one though) to make it > > > > easy for user coming from WLM. like a ">>" button or something, what > > > > image should be shown should be thought of then. > > > > > > oh yeah, but the ccard turning over is just eye candy shit from M$, and I > > > never intended to say we should have a > > > 'contact card", as I already said, 'ccard' is just a name we used as > > > convention to know we talk about the same > > > thing, but turning over the ccard is just because M$ sees it as a "card", > > > some kind of 'business card' with two > > > sides, nah, we don't need that, when I'm talking about the reverse side, > > > I'm just talking about a 'next page' if > > > you prefer.. we could actually do it that way!!!!! > > > ohh, great idea I think :D > > > have about a 1/3 or 1/4 or whatever, you click on >> and it goes to 'next > > > page' 2/3, etc.. so we can group > > > information together and put only small amount of info on each page > > > without clutering the card! and no label > > > expanding, so no size change so user don't need to get used to the new > > > size to search for his data. > > > Also, I think that we should keep it at 3 pages, 4 is acceptable, but if > > > we go beyond that, then it will become > > > too much for the user too... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My opinion is that the properties window should NOT disappear, > > > > > > > it's a nice window with many useful information > > > > > > > about a user, and with its multiple tabs we can get access to the > > > > > > > alarm settings, previous DPs and customize the > > > > > > > user, nickname/psm/color/dp some advanced otpions, move him from > > > > > > > groups, etc.. it's useful I think. > > > > > > If we have a window to show nickname/psm, why not having an option > > > > > > there to tweak the settings about it ? Same for DP ...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's a bit complicated I think, although I may be wrong. when you > > > > > tweak such a setting, it isn't a field that > > > > > you just edit. we're talking about custom nick, custom psm, custom > > > > > friendly name, custom dp, custom color... > > > > > if it was something internal, like WLM does when storing the adress > > > > > of someone, or the notes for example, then > > > > > it's ok, you just edit those notes, but in the case of the custom > > > > > nick (without talking about all those other > > > > > custom things) you can't just have a field and edit it because you're > > > > > not really editing the nickname, you're > > > > > either setting or unsetting a custom nick, which itself can be made > > > > > of $nick/$email variables. > > > > > assuming it's an entry, you can't just click on it and > > > > > backspace/backspace to edit the nickname, you should end > > > > > up with an empty entry if no custom nick is set, and then you set it > > > > > to something. > > > > > same applies for the other custom options. > > > > > > > > This seems like a matter of words. Maybe the icon I choose is bad and > > > > it should be more like a "configure" or "options" button. The buttons > > > > should have a sane tooltip therefor. > > > > > > > > > > ok, but you click there and what happens ? a new window pops up with the > > > entries ? like the 'change nickname' > > > window ? but for the user this time ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My original idea, and I just found out that WLM does kind of the > > > > > > > same (a bit differently though). > > > > > > > My idea was to have the ccard as ou had it in the 'std' mockup, > > > > > > > and have, instead of the 'advanced' button you > > > > > > > had, have a "Edit contact" which would open the properties window. > > > > > > > I think, with NWM's mockup, a "More info" button would also be > > > > > > > suitable. > > > > > > > In WLM, it's acutally a pencil icon and only in the reverse side > > > > > > > of the ccard, and it's tooltip says "edit this > > > > > > > contact's information" which opens up some kind of properties > > > > > > > window, where you can enter > > > > > > > name/address/phones/nickname/website/birthdays/etc.. and a > > > > > > > 'notes' tab :s > > > > > > > > > > > > You can only change *this socio-demographic data* in WLM, right ? > > > > > > We > > > > > > have more info to put on a ccard, so why put it in another window ? > > > > > > If you want the properties screen to be the "edit contact" screen, > > > > > > you > > > > > > shouldn't use it to display other data too because then it's more > > > > > > then > > > > > > an "edit contact" screen. (joke: It's like a filemanager that's > > > > > > also > > > > > > a webbrowser, those tasks are better split ;) ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "we have more info.. why put it in another window" -> I'd say because > > > > > we have too much info that would be > > > > > totally useless for a user to 'quickly access' that info. you usually > > > > > don't want to quickly access that info, > > > > > although I may be wrong... actually what we want to quickly access is > > > > > already in the tooltip.. no ? > > > > > > > > That's why I don't want the advanced info to be shown when you open > > > > the ccard (aka "user properties card"). > > > > I'd like to remove some info from our tooltip too. The tooltip is so > > > > big that you have to scan it for some time to find the info you need. > > > > I don't think "last message" info is checked very much by most users, > > > > this seems like more advanced info to me. > > > > > > > > > > I agree, that's what I was saying too, what we want to quickly access is > > > in the tooltip although the tooltip has > > > more than just quick info, and yes, last message is a total waste of > > > time... it was probably added as the first > > > of the 'extra' infos stored in the abook and was put there, then new > > > things (like last login/logout) were added > > > but kept away from tooltip without last message being removed from there. > > > I agree we should remove it. > > > > > > > > > > > "if you want the properties screen to be the edit contact, you > > > > > shouldn't use it to display other data" -> no, I > > > > > think it has to contain that data too because as explained above > > > > > about the difficulty of the custom nick, it's > > > > > the same thing, you can't edit something if you can't get access to > > > > > that info at the same time. Also, it's a > > > > > "properties" window, which means it shows the properties and it > > > > > allows you to edit them and more, it's not a > > > > > "edit contact info" window.. > > > > > at least, that's how i see it, others might see it differently.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this is my 2 cents. a button to open the properties window is > > > > > > > good, the 'advanced' idea is also good but I > > > > > > > wouldn't want to put too much info in that single window. > > > > > > Well, you would put it in teh properties window ... so you want it > > > > > > in > > > > > > 1 window. If you find the ccard a bit too small, it could be made a > > > > > > (little !) bit bigger by default but we shouldn't overwhelm new > > > > > > users > > > > > > with all teh advanced options IMO. Eventually we can have an option > > > > > > to make the ccards I propose always expanded for power users ... > > > > > > Just > > > > > > ideas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think having it 'advanced' always for power users is useless, it's > > > > > saving one click once in a while for the > > > > > user but cluttering amsn with yet another option (unless using > > > > > powertool plugin). > > > > > I think the ccard is small because it should only contain spaces > > > > > info, I do think it's a bit too small, and as > > > > > you say it can be made a (little !) bit bigger... but it would still > > > > > not be fit enough to contain all the > > > > > necessary info, don't you think ? > > > > I said this (maybe have an option) because I thought most of our > > > > developpers wouldn't want the advanced options not to be shown by > > > > default, but I'm against an extra option. This advanced info isn't > > > > something one (with a live that's worth something) would check every 5 > > > > minutes. > > > > > > > > > > true, I think the advanced option shouldn't be shown by default, no need > > > for option, when you select a different > > > user without first closing the current ccard, then we keep the > > > advanced/basic mode as it was, just update the > > > info in there, and that's it. no? > > > with the pages idea, it would be the same, when selecting a different > > > user, you keep the same page the user was > > > in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karel. > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: what I write is my opinion, it's not *the preferable way* maybe > > > > > > > > > > How humble :) ;) > > > > > > > > I don't want to sound arrogant :) It was never my intention anyway. > > > > Again, these are just my thoughts. > > > > > > I know, I was just winking you because of that last incident :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KaKaRoTo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 05:57:46PM +0100, Karel Demeyer wrote: > > > > > > > > 2007/1/30, Cristofaro Del Prete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > > > > > My 0.02: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karel Demeyer ha scritto: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm working on a UI proposal for the ccard's/properties > > > > > > > > > > window. > > > > > > > > > > Firstly I want to make some things clear: > > > > > > > > > > * this proposal gets rid of "inline" ccards, they were > > > > > > > > > > (imo) a nice > > > > > > > > > > idea UI-wise to show the data but we have more data to show > > > > > > > > > > and we > > > > > > > > > > should make it all a bit more clear and easier. > > > > > > > > > > * this proposal mostly works like the way youness > > > > > > > > > > implemented the > > > > > > > > > > ccards but tries to make the ccards more in a general "user > > > > > > > > > > properties > > > > > > > > > > screen" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what do I propose: When a buddy icon is clicked, a > > > > > > > > > > ccard pops up, > > > > > > > > > > where it should pop up should be thought about as it is > > > > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > > > interface-wise. A mockup for this ccard is in attachement. > > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > ccard already shows a bit more data then WLM's; it shows > > > > > > > > > > the email > > > > > > > > > > addres, a button to change notes, a button to change > > > > > > > > > > alarms, an > > > > > > > > > > "advanced" button .... > > > > > > > > > > like we have now in the properties screen, everything on > > > > > > > > > > this ccard > > > > > > > > > > should have a right-click menu where one can choose "copy to > > > > > > > > > > clipboard". For the nickname, psm and display picture, > > > > > > > > > > there should > > > > > > > > > > be a "options" menu-item, clicking this opens another > > > > > > > > > > window where > > > > > > > > > > onne can set custom DPs, or custom nicknames, custom color > > > > > > > > > > of a > > > > > > > > > > nickname etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clicking the advanced button makes the window in what I > > > > > > > > > > have in my > > > > > > > > > > other mockup. Firstly, it adds 3 "edit" buttons, one after > > > > > > > > > > nickname, > > > > > > > > > > psm, and one hovered on a corner op the dp. Clicking those > > > > > > > > > > buttons > > > > > > > > > > does the same as rightclicking the items and choosing > > > > > > > > > > "options". > > > > > > > > > > Another thing that happens when you click the "advanced" > > > > > > > > > > button (the > > > > > > > > > > button should stay pressed then), is the window growing > > > > > > > > > > bigger. The > > > > > > > > > > window should then show firstly some extra data of the > > > > > > > > > > user, and then > > > > > > > > > > allow for some other settings that are special for that > > > > > > > > > > user. This > > > > > > > > > > extra space will probably be a TK frame so it won't have > > > > > > > > > > that nice > > > > > > > > > > background, but that's not such a problem. I didn't add > > > > > > > > > > all options > > > > > > > > > > on my mockup, but you can check our properties window now > > > > > > > > > > to see what > > > > > > > > > > is needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think the contact card should be used to show > > > > > > > > > advanced infos, or > > > > > > > > > to edit settings. I think it would be better to just have a > > > > > > > > > "preferences" button, in the left-bottom corner of the ccard, > > > > > > > > > that would > > > > > > > > > open the user properties windows. > > > > > > > > > This way there would be fast access to the advanced info > > > > > > > > > (they are in > > > > > > > > > the first tab), as well as *all* the user settings, instead > > > > > > > > > of just few > > > > > > > > > of them. > > > > > > > > The thing that I try is to put all the settings there in teh > > > > > > > > expanded > > > > > > > > ccard so we won't need a properties screen anymore. Everyhting > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > be on teh ccard or a window openened with a button on the > > > > > > > > expanded > > > > > > > > ccard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do I propose this ? Well, we have to much different > > > > > > > > > > ways to show > > > > > > > > > > user data: I wanted to add inline spaces data (ok, my bad), > > > > > > > > > > we will > > > > > > > > > > have ccards, we have a properties window and we have a > > > > > > > > > > tooltip... this > > > > > > > > > > should be reduced imo. I think the tooltip has too much > > > > > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > > > right now. It should have dp/nick/psm/music and not more I > > > > > > > > > > guess. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd also add the contact status, because, when using the > > > > > > > > > small display > > > > > > > > > pictures in place of the contact icon, it can be difficult to > > > > > > > > > see if a > > > > > > > > > contact is online or offline. > > > > > > > > Well, overlaying a status-icon on the ccard's DP should do > > > > > > > > this. But > > > > > > > > this should also be fixed in teh new CL. sthe status icons > > > > > > > > should be > > > > > > > > overlayed on the buddy icon, so when the buddyicon is changed > > > > > > > > into a > > > > > > > > dp, there should still be a status emblem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About this proposal, nick/psm are truncated but they should > > > > > > > > > > have a > > > > > > > > > > tooltip with the full string. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My question now: what's your opinion about this ? What > > > > > > > > > > would you like > > > > > > > > > > differently ? ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I don't have much time now but I did this as a spare > > > > > > > > > > time project > > > > > > > > > > between my study-hours; If I don't respond to e-mail > > > > > > > > > > quickly, it > > > > > > > > > > doesn't mean I'm not interested in your replies thus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. 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