2007/2/1, Youness Alaoui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Wed, Jan 31, 2007 at 06:47:55PM +0100, Karel Demeyer wrote: > > 2007/1/30, Youness Alaoui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > I like the idea, but I don't like the fact that we would loose the inline > > > spaces info, it was a good feature and > > > I'm sure (even the poll says so) that many people will like that better. > > > I wanted to talk with you on msn about this to make sure I'm not saying > > > things wrong, but I'll try to give my 2 > > > cents here and now. > > > > I still think the inline spaces info has it's pros, and it looks nice > > too. But, I only thought about 1 think for that design and that was > > the spaces info; I forgot to see it in a bigger whole. (the idea > > could be reused in some plugin) Now I took a view on all "user related > > info and settings" and tried to integrate it to make it all > > overseeable, easy and WLM-like for a novice user and powerfull and > > still clutter-less for an advanced user. > > > > Yes, I also think the inline spaces has its pros and I wouldn't want to > remove that... Do you think there's a > way to put merge the two ideas together in some way ?
Well, I like it but it's bad for the user experience as a whole. I'd have it as a plugin option or something but not next to a window that shows the same information. We'd better go for sane defaults then for all kind of options I guess. > > > > I think the ccard mockup you put was great and I like it like that, but > > > as a ccard, nothing more. I agree that > > > there are too many informational windows, but I don't think too many is > > > bad, too little or too exploded is bad, > > > if it's the same info, shown differently, it's ok. the ccard should have : > > > nick,psm,,dp,blog info. No need for more info. > > > > Shouldn't the ccard be the window that shows the info you can show > > about that user, instead of only beaing a place to find > > blogposts/photos? So, if aMSN has more advanced info, show that info > > for more advanced users in that spot ? > > > > ok, well, that's where we didn't understand each other. For me, the ccard is > actually the 'spaces info' window, What's so special/important about MSN Spaces that it deserves it's own window ? Isn't the ccard more a "user properties window" in WLM too, the place where you can find more info about a user? > not the 'user properties' window.. the 'user properties' info should actually > go in the 'properties' window :p > that's why. I understand why you would want to group all that info in one > place, but I think that the > novice/average user wouldn't want to see *all* that info. I'm sure that a > ccard with everything we have on a > user will just make the user close the window and not understand. That's why my mockup doesn't show all info for a novice user. If you want more info, you'll have to press the "advanced" (or "more info") button. > I like the properties window because I think it's still simple while showing > a lot of info and is pretty useful. I think the properties window now is quite overwhelming. The window has allmost as most settings /data in 1 window then IE6's settings window (I hope you agree with me that's a bad UI example ;)). > If we are to add the info from there and put it in the ccard, it would become > too clutered, not just for the > average user, but also for the advanced user. > The ccard doesn't have a : > email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] > nickname : this is the nick > psm : this is the psm > last login : date > last message : date > last logout : date > > it just has the data, without the label telling what is what because it is > made so simple that a single look > should tell you what is what, you see the blogs, the nickname and psm and you > know what it is without the need > of the "nickname" or 'psm" label in front of it. > If we are to add all the info from the properties window, we'd have to add > last login/logout/message, which are > 3 dates, and 3 dates would mean nothing without the 'header' label, in which > case it will become cluttered. if > we have a label for those dates, it makes no sense to not have any header for > the nickname/psm/etc.. which means Well, the mockup (and WLM's cards) also have a caption for blogposts and photos because you can't know what it is as a new user without the label. THe nickname/PSM/dp is cristal clear because they're already on the CL and it's the data to identify who's card it is you're looking at. THe date's etc all have their label in my mockup for the advanced "card". > the window will get really huge, and it will become unreadable for the user. The window wouldn't be very big. Do you find it too big like it is in my mockup? I don't think it will be much bigger if implemented. It's smaller then the properties window and all settings should be accesible from it. To change the custom nicks etc, a new window will open and I think that's ok because it will then only show if the user wants to change it or look what he set up, which is not something you do every 5 minutes. > I think this is still not good even if that info is only shown in the > 'advanced' mode... > > I prefer to see the ccard as a "spaces info" (we could put that as a title in > the ccard info, to avoid > confusion) which is why it should be very simple. we should really start > calling it 'spaces info' instead of > ccard because ccard is just a nickname taken from WLM. > > I hope we understand each other here. I *understand* you but I don't get it why you want a seperate window for spaced info only. Why wouldn't you put this in your properties window too ? because WLM users expect a ccard ? Well, if that's your only problem, it could be solved by putitng it in a properties window, and making that look like a ccard ... well, that's my mockup :). But I guess you have some other objections :). > > > > > > in the mockup, you left the two arrows to 'switch ccard'. I always > > > thought the idea of 'switching the ccard' was > > > stupid and I would have voted to remove it and leave just a single > > > window, not a double sided window. I don't > > > know if you'd like this idea but I'll tell anyway, how about all those > > > 'extra' informations be put in the > > > reverse side of the ccard, like the phone numbers, last login, last > > > message, client id, etc.. > > > that's optional, it can be left out, but I'm just trying to follow your > > > idea of "all the info in the same > > > place". > > The switch buttons where a mistake, they should be removed :). I > > started this mockup from teh old ccards and forgot to remove 'm. > > > yeah, I knew you forgot them, which is why I said, I wonder if you'd like the > idea of actually using the reverse > instead of removing it... > it was just an idea in order to have all the info in the ccard, because we > won't be able to put it all in 'one > page' without cluttering the info. I think the "back" is a bad idea as we can't make the card look like it "turns" when you press that button and (for my mockup), we have more info to show. THe back in WLM is like the "advanced" info we'd show. ONly, we'll have more. We could howerer, have an "expand" button on that same spot (a little unobtrusive one though) to make it easy for user coming from WLM. like a ">>" button or something, what image should be shown should be thought of then. > > > > > My opinion is that the properties window should NOT disappear, it's a > > > nice window with many useful information > > > about a user, and with its multiple tabs we can get access to the alarm > > > settings, previous DPs and customize the > > > user, nickname/psm/color/dp some advanced otpions, move him from groups, > > > etc.. it's useful I think. > > If we have a window to show nickname/psm, why not having an option > > there to tweak the settings about it ? Same for DP ...? > > > > it's a bit complicated I think, although I may be wrong. when you tweak such > a setting, it isn't a field that > you just edit. we're talking about custom nick, custom psm, custom friendly > name, custom dp, custom color... > if it was something internal, like WLM does when storing the adress of > someone, or the notes for example, then > it's ok, you just edit those notes, but in the case of the custom nick > (without talking about all those other > custom things) you can't just have a field and edit it because you're not > really editing the nickname, you're > either setting or unsetting a custom nick, which itself can be made of > $nick/$email variables. > assuming it's an entry, you can't just click on it and backspace/backspace to > edit the nickname, you should end > up with an empty entry if no custom nick is set, and then you set it to > something. > same applies for the other custom options. This seems like a matter of words. Maybe the icon I choose is bad and it should be more like a "configure" or "options" button. The buttons should have a sane tooltip therefor. > > > > > My original idea, and I just found out that WLM does kind of the same (a > > > bit differently though). > > > My idea was to have the ccard as ou had it in the 'std' mockup, and have, > > > instead of the 'advanced' button you > > > had, have a "Edit contact" which would open the properties window. > > > I think, with NWM's mockup, a "More info" button would also be suitable. > > > In WLM, it's acutally a pencil icon and only in the reverse side of the > > > ccard, and it's tooltip says "edit this > > > contact's information" which opens up some kind of properties window, > > > where you can enter > > > name/address/phones/nickname/website/birthdays/etc.. and a 'notes' tab :s > > > > You can only change *this socio-demographic data* in WLM, right ? We > > have more info to put on a ccard, so why put it in another window ? > > If you want the properties screen to be the "edit contact" screen, you > > shouldn't use it to display other data too because then it's more then > > an "edit contact" screen. (joke: It's like a filemanager that's also > > a webbrowser, those tasks are better split ;) ) > > > > "we have more info.. why put it in another window" -> I'd say because we have > too much info that would be > totally useless for a user to 'quickly access' that info. you usually don't > want to quickly access that info, > although I may be wrong... actually what we want to quickly access is already > in the tooltip.. no ? That's why I don't want the advanced info to be shown when you open the ccard (aka "user properties card"). I'd like to remove some info from our tooltip too. The tooltip is so big that you have to scan it for some time to find the info you need. I don't think "last message" info is checked very much by most users, this seems like more advanced info to me. > "if you want the properties screen to be the edit contact, you shouldn't use > it to display other data" -> no, I > think it has to contain that data too because as explained above about the > difficulty of the custom nick, it's > the same thing, you can't edit something if you can't get access to that info > at the same time. Also, it's a > "properties" window, which means it shows the properties and it allows you to > edit them and more, it's not a > "edit contact info" window.. > at least, that's how i see it, others might see it differently.. > > > > > > > So this is my 2 cents. a button to open the properties window is good, > > > the 'advanced' idea is also good but I > > > wouldn't want to put too much info in that single window. > > Well, you would put it in teh properties window ... so you want it in > > 1 window. If you find the ccard a bit too small, it could be made a > > (little !) bit bigger by default but we shouldn't overwhelm new users > > with all teh advanced options IMO. Eventually we can have an option > > to make the ccards I propose always expanded for power users ... Just > > ideas! > > > > I think having it 'advanced' always for power users is useless, it's saving > one click once in a while for the > user but cluttering amsn with yet another option (unless using powertool > plugin). > I think the ccard is small because it should only contain spaces info, I do > think it's a bit too small, and as > you say it can be made a (little !) bit bigger... but it would still not be > fit enough to contain all the > necessary info, don't you think ? I said this (maybe have an option) because I thought most of our developpers wouldn't want the advanced options not to be shown by default, but I'm against an extra option. This advanced info isn't something one (with a live that's worth something) would check every 5 minutes. > > > > > Karel. > > > > PS: what I write is my opinion, it's not *the preferable way* maybe > > How humble :) ;) I don't want to sound arrogant :) It was never my intention anyway. Again, these are just my thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > KaKaRoTo > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 05:57:46PM +0100, Karel Demeyer wrote: > > > > 2007/1/30, Cristofaro Del Prete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > My 0.02: > > > > > > > > > > Karel Demeyer ha scritto: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm working on a UI proposal for the ccard's/properties window. > > > > > > Firstly I want to make some things clear: > > > > > > * this proposal gets rid of "inline" ccards, they were (imo) a nice > > > > > > idea UI-wise to show the data but we have more data to show and we > > > > > > should make it all a bit more clear and easier. > > > > > > * this proposal mostly works like the way youness implemented the > > > > > > ccards but tries to make the ccards more in a general "user > > > > > > properties > > > > > > screen" > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what do I propose: When a buddy icon is clicked, a ccard pops > > > > > > up, > > > > > > where it should pop up should be thought about as it is important > > > > > > interface-wise. A mockup for this ccard is in attachement. This > > > > > > ccard already shows a bit more data then WLM's; it shows the email > > > > > > addres, a button to change notes, a button to change alarms, an > > > > > > "advanced" button .... > > > > > > like we have now in the properties screen, everything on this ccard > > > > > > should have a right-click menu where one can choose "copy to > > > > > > clipboard". For the nickname, psm and display picture, there should > > > > > > be a "options" menu-item, clicking this opens another window where > > > > > > onne can set custom DPs, or custom nicknames, custom color of a > > > > > > nickname etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > Clicking the advanced button makes the window in what I have in my > > > > > > other mockup. Firstly, it adds 3 "edit" buttons, one after > > > > > > nickname, > > > > > > psm, and one hovered on a corner op the dp. Clicking those buttons > > > > > > does the same as rightclicking the items and choosing "options". > > > > > > Another thing that happens when you click the "advanced" button (the > > > > > > button should stay pressed then), is the window growing bigger. The > > > > > > window should then show firstly some extra data of the user, and > > > > > > then > > > > > > allow for some other settings that are special for that user. This > > > > > > extra space will probably be a TK frame so it won't have that nice > > > > > > background, but that's not such a problem. I didn't add all options > > > > > > on my mockup, but you can check our properties window now to see > > > > > > what > > > > > > is needed. > > > > > > > > > > I don't think the contact card should be used to show advanced infos, > > > > > or > > > > > to edit settings. I think it would be better to just have a > > > > > "preferences" button, in the left-bottom corner of the ccard, that > > > > > would > > > > > open the user properties windows. > > > > > This way there would be fast access to the advanced info (they are in > > > > > the first tab), as well as *all* the user settings, instead of just > > > > > few > > > > > of them. > > > > The thing that I try is to put all the settings there in teh expanded > > > > ccard so we won't need a properties screen anymore. Everyhting should > > > > be on teh ccard or a window openened with a button on the expanded > > > > ccard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do I propose this ? Well, we have to much different ways to > > > > > > show > > > > > > user data: I wanted to add inline spaces data (ok, my bad), we will > > > > > > have ccards, we have a properties window and we have a tooltip... > > > > > > this > > > > > > should be reduced imo. I think the tooltip has too much information > > > > > > right now. It should have dp/nick/psm/music and not more I guess. > > > > > > > > > > I'd also add the contact status, because, when using the small display > > > > > pictures in place of the contact icon, it can be difficult to see if a > > > > > contact is online or offline. > > > > Well, overlaying a status-icon on the ccard's DP should do this. But > > > > this should also be fixed in teh new CL. sthe status icons should be > > > > overlayed on the buddy icon, so when the buddyicon is changed into a > > > > dp, there should still be a status emblem. > > > > > > > > > > > About this proposal, nick/psm are truncated but they should have a > > > > > > tooltip with the full string. > > > > > > > > > > > > My question now: what's your opinion about this ? What would you > > > > > > like > > > > > > differently ? ... > > > > > > > > > > > > Karel. > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I don't have much time now but I did this as a spare time > > > > > > project > > > > > > between my study-hours; If I don't respond to e-mail quickly, it > > > > > > doesn't mean I'm not interested in your replies thus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. 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