I'm back from my meeting and the good news is I'll work as stagiaire for the newscrew of the biggest Media-concern (VRT) of Belgium... I feel very excited :). Anyway, in 2 hours I'm off to Austria for a week, but I want to call up everyone once again to give an opinion on this thread. I want to do a great deal of the coding if you feel for this design, but I want some back-up... I don't want to push a "decision" before 0.97, but I still push :p.
See you back in a week or a bit more, Karel 2007/2/2, Karel Demeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > <about spaces inline> > > I guess you're right, if it's as a plugin, it should be ok, or maybe core, > > but a plugin (powertool?) would allow > > the user to enable it. > > idem dito. > > > > > what's so special about spaces? lol, nothing, the same as winks, nothing > > special about it, but still, the human > > brain is weird because some people think it's something important... > > anyways, it's a feature, it's something, > > it's information, it's "spaces info", and it has its own window, I didn't > > say it *should* have its own window, I > > just said, I always thought of it as if it was a "spaces info" window, > > nothing more. > > What I like about it though, compared to prop window is that it shows what > > people want to see in a simple, small > > window. + the star is about spaces and without the star, people wouldn't > > get to open that window, usually people > > click there to see the 'updated space info', not the phone number of the > > user, or whatever. > > Well, in WLM, the ccard isn't a "spaces window" either. a click on a > buddy icon opens the "properties window" (ccard) too. My mockup card > should be opened the same way and should show the same info. Pressing > "more >>" shows even more info and a way to tweak some settings (you > can't do this in WLM). The star is just a notification icon and > pressing it does the same as pressing a buddy icon, right ? > > > > > > nah, I don't want a separated window for spaces info only, I just said > > that's how I saw it. If you remember in > > my first mails about the feature, I was actually suggesting we have a "full > > toplevel window where we show all > > the data in the same way as the properties window", that's what I was > > suggesting. > > I guess I then liked the ccard when I saw your code (the ccard plugin) and > > I just loved the way you did it :) > > and I thought it would be great to live up to the words "amsn, same > > look&feel as MSN messenger"... > > Now I don't know, I just think we're not wasting much by giving the users > > that eye candy everyone loves M$ > > for... (no debate, I know, not everyone :p) > > My mockup gives allmost the same experience as on WLM for 90% of the > users I guess. > > > > I don't really have objections to your mockup apart that I'm afraid it > > might turn up as a cluttered window... > > hey, how about a 'spaces info' window in 'basic/less info' mode and a > > 'properties window' in the 'advanced' mode > > ? was it what you were suggesting ? or you wanted more info than just > > spaces info, in the 'basic' mode ? damn, > > can't remember... > > Maybe I'll have to PM you to explain it more clear ? check the > mockups and read the mails. > > I have to go now, I'll quickly say: i'm against "pages" on teh ccard. > it's not a good UI-thing as the window shows exactly the same wand we > can't have a good "change page" animation. wehn you "expand" the > space instead, you can see all info at once again, in an overseeable > way. also, the info you saw when i wasn't expanded stays at the same > position. have to go now. > > Karel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the mockup, you left the two arrows to 'switch ccard'. I always > > > > > > thought the idea of 'switching the ccard' was > > > > > > stupid and I would have voted to remove it and leave just a single > > > > > > window, not a double sided window. I don't > > > > > > know if you'd like this idea but I'll tell anyway, how about all > > > > > > those 'extra' informations be put in the > > > > > > reverse side of the ccard, like the phone numbers, last login, last > > > > > > message, client id, etc.. > > > > > > that's optional, it can be left out, but I'm just trying to follow > > > > > > your idea of "all the info in the same > > > > > > place". > > > > > The switch buttons where a mistake, they should be removed :). I > > > > > started this mockup from teh old ccards and forgot to remove 'm. > > > > > > > > > yeah, I knew you forgot them, which is why I said, I wonder if you'd > > > > like the idea of actually using the reverse > > > > instead of removing it... > > > > it was just an idea in order to have all the info in the ccard, because > > > > we won't be able to put it all in 'one > > > > page' without cluttering the info. > > > > > > I think the "back" is a bad idea as we can't make the card look like > > > it "turns" when you press that button and (for my mockup), we have > > > more info to show. THe back in WLM is like the "advanced" info we'd > > > show. ONly, we'll have more. We could howerer, have an "expand" > > > button on that same spot (a little unobtrusive one though) to make it > > > easy for user coming from WLM. like a ">>" button or something, what > > > image should be shown should be thought of then. > > > > oh yeah, but the ccard turning over is just eye candy shit from M$, and I > > never intended to say we should have a > > 'contact card", as I already said, 'ccard' is just a name we used as > > convention to know we talk about the same > > thing, but turning over the ccard is just because M$ sees it as a "card", > > some kind of 'business card' with two > > sides, nah, we don't need that, when I'm talking about the reverse side, > > I'm just talking about a 'next page' if > > you prefer.. we could actually do it that way!!!!! > > ohh, great idea I think :D > > have about a 1/3 or 1/4 or whatever, you click on >> and it goes to 'next > > page' 2/3, etc.. so we can group > > information together and put only small amount of info on each page without > > clutering the card! and no label > > expanding, so no size change so user don't need to get used to the new size > > to search for his data. > > Also, I think that we should keep it at 3 pages, 4 is acceptable, but if we > > go beyond that, then it will become > > too much for the user too... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My opinion is that the properties window should NOT disappear, it's > > > > > > a nice window with many useful information > > > > > > about a user, and with its multiple tabs we can get access to the > > > > > > alarm settings, previous DPs and customize the > > > > > > user, nickname/psm/color/dp some advanced otpions, move him from > > > > > > groups, etc.. it's useful I think. > > > > > If we have a window to show nickname/psm, why not having an option > > > > > there to tweak the settings about it ? Same for DP ...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's a bit complicated I think, although I may be wrong. when you tweak > > > > such a setting, it isn't a field that > > > > you just edit. we're talking about custom nick, custom psm, custom > > > > friendly name, custom dp, custom color... > > > > if it was something internal, like WLM does when storing the adress of > > > > someone, or the notes for example, then > > > > it's ok, you just edit those notes, but in the case of the custom nick > > > > (without talking about all those other > > > > custom things) you can't just have a field and edit it because you're > > > > not really editing the nickname, you're > > > > either setting or unsetting a custom nick, which itself can be made of > > > > $nick/$email variables. > > > > assuming it's an entry, you can't just click on it and > > > > backspace/backspace to edit the nickname, you should end > > > > up with an empty entry if no custom nick is set, and then you set it to > > > > something. > > > > same applies for the other custom options. > > > > > > This seems like a matter of words. Maybe the icon I choose is bad and > > > it should be more like a "configure" or "options" button. The buttons > > > should have a sane tooltip therefor. > > > > > > > ok, but you click there and what happens ? a new window pops up with the > > entries ? like the 'change nickname' > > window ? but for the user this time ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My original idea, and I just found out that WLM does kind of the > > > > > > same (a bit differently though). > > > > > > My idea was to have the ccard as ou had it in the 'std' mockup, and > > > > > > have, instead of the 'advanced' button you > > > > > > had, have a "Edit contact" which would open the properties window. > > > > > > I think, with NWM's mockup, a "More info" button would also be > > > > > > suitable. > > > > > > In WLM, it's acutally a pencil icon and only in the reverse side of > > > > > > the ccard, and it's tooltip says "edit this > > > > > > contact's information" which opens up some kind of properties > > > > > > window, where you can enter > > > > > > name/address/phones/nickname/website/birthdays/etc.. and a 'notes' > > > > > > tab :s > > > > > > > > > > You can only change *this socio-demographic data* in WLM, right ? We > > > > > have more info to put on a ccard, so why put it in another window ? > > > > > If you want the properties screen to be the "edit contact" screen, you > > > > > shouldn't use it to display other data too because then it's more then > > > > > an "edit contact" screen. (joke: It's like a filemanager that's also > > > > > a webbrowser, those tasks are better split ;) ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > "we have more info.. why put it in another window" -> I'd say because > > > > we have too much info that would be > > > > totally useless for a user to 'quickly access' that info. you usually > > > > don't want to quickly access that info, > > > > although I may be wrong... actually what we want to quickly access is > > > > already in the tooltip.. no ? > > > > > > That's why I don't want the advanced info to be shown when you open > > > the ccard (aka "user properties card"). > > > I'd like to remove some info from our tooltip too. The tooltip is so > > > big that you have to scan it for some time to find the info you need. > > > I don't think "last message" info is checked very much by most users, > > > this seems like more advanced info to me. > > > > > > > I agree, that's what I was saying too, what we want to quickly access is in > > the tooltip although the tooltip has > > more than just quick info, and yes, last message is a total waste of > > time... it was probably added as the first > > of the 'extra' infos stored in the abook and was put there, then new things > > (like last login/logout) were added > > but kept away from tooltip without last message being removed from there. I > > agree we should remove it. > > > > > > > > "if you want the properties screen to be the edit contact, you > > > > shouldn't use it to display other data" -> no, I > > > > think it has to contain that data too because as explained above about > > > > the difficulty of the custom nick, it's > > > > the same thing, you can't edit something if you can't get access to > > > > that info at the same time. Also, it's a > > > > "properties" window, which means it shows the properties and it allows > > > > you to edit them and more, it's not a > > > > "edit contact info" window.. > > > > at least, that's how i see it, others might see it differently.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this is my 2 cents. a button to open the properties window is > > > > > > good, the 'advanced' idea is also good but I > > > > > > wouldn't want to put too much info in that single window. > > > > > Well, you would put it in teh properties window ... so you want it in > > > > > 1 window. If you find the ccard a bit too small, it could be made a > > > > > (little !) bit bigger by default but we shouldn't overwhelm new users > > > > > with all teh advanced options IMO. Eventually we can have an option > > > > > to make the ccards I propose always expanded for power users ... Just > > > > > ideas! > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think having it 'advanced' always for power users is useless, it's > > > > saving one click once in a while for the > > > > user but cluttering amsn with yet another option (unless using > > > > powertool plugin). > > > > I think the ccard is small because it should only contain spaces info, > > > > I do think it's a bit too small, and as > > > > you say it can be made a (little !) bit bigger... but it would still > > > > not be fit enough to contain all the > > > > necessary info, don't you think ? > > > I said this (maybe have an option) because I thought most of our > > > developpers wouldn't want the advanced options not to be shown by > > > default, but I'm against an extra option. This advanced info isn't > > > something one (with a live that's worth something) would check every 5 > > > minutes. > > > > > > > true, I think the advanced option shouldn't be shown by default, no need > > for option, when you select a different > > user without first closing the current ccard, then we keep the > > advanced/basic mode as it was, just update the > > info in there, and that's it. no? > > with the pages idea, it would be the same, when selecting a different user, > > you keep the same page the user was > > in. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karel. > > > > > > > > > > PS: what I write is my opinion, it's not *the preferable way* maybe > > > > > > > > How humble :) ;) > > > > > > I don't want to sound arrogant :) It was never my intention anyway. > > > Again, these are just my thoughts. > > > > I know, I was just winking you because of that last incident :p > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > KaKaRoTo > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jan 30, 2007 at 05:57:46PM +0100, Karel Demeyer wrote: > > > > > > > 2007/1/30, Cristofaro Del Prete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > > > > My 0.02: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karel Demeyer ha scritto: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm working on a UI proposal for the ccard's/properties > > > > > > > > > window. > > > > > > > > > Firstly I want to make some things clear: > > > > > > > > > * this proposal gets rid of "inline" ccards, they were (imo) > > > > > > > > > a nice > > > > > > > > > idea UI-wise to show the data but we have more data to show > > > > > > > > > and we > > > > > > > > > should make it all a bit more clear and easier. > > > > > > > > > * this proposal mostly works like the way youness implemented > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > ccards but tries to make the ccards more in a general "user > > > > > > > > > properties > > > > > > > > > screen" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, what do I propose: When a buddy icon is clicked, a ccard > > > > > > > > > pops up, > > > > > > > > > where it should pop up should be thought about as it is > > > > > > > > > important > > > > > > > > > interface-wise. A mockup for this ccard is in attachement. > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > ccard already shows a bit more data then WLM's; it shows the > > > > > > > > > email > > > > > > > > > addres, a button to change notes, a button to change alarms, > > > > > > > > > an > > > > > > > > > "advanced" button .... > > > > > > > > > like we have now in the properties screen, everything on this > > > > > > > > > ccard > > > > > > > > > should have a right-click menu where one can choose "copy to > > > > > > > > > clipboard". For the nickname, psm and display picture, there > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > be a "options" menu-item, clicking this opens another window > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > onne can set custom DPs, or custom nicknames, custom color of > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > nickname etc... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Clicking the advanced button makes the window in what I have > > > > > > > > > in my > > > > > > > > > other mockup. Firstly, it adds 3 "edit" buttons, one after > > > > > > > > > nickname, > > > > > > > > > psm, and one hovered on a corner op the dp. Clicking those > > > > > > > > > buttons > > > > > > > > > does the same as rightclicking the items and choosing > > > > > > > > > "options". > > > > > > > > > Another thing that happens when you click the "advanced" > > > > > > > > > button (the > > > > > > > > > button should stay pressed then), is the window growing > > > > > > > > > bigger. The > > > > > > > > > window should then show firstly some extra data of the user, > > > > > > > > > and then > > > > > > > > > allow for some other settings that are special for that user. > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > extra space will probably be a TK frame so it won't have that > > > > > > > > > nice > > > > > > > > > background, but that's not such a problem. I didn't add all > > > > > > > > > options > > > > > > > > > on my mockup, but you can check our properties window now to > > > > > > > > > see what > > > > > > > > > is needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think the contact card should be used to show advanced > > > > > > > > infos, or > > > > > > > > to edit settings. I think it would be better to just have a > > > > > > > > "preferences" button, in the left-bottom corner of the ccard, > > > > > > > > that would > > > > > > > > open the user properties windows. > > > > > > > > This way there would be fast access to the advanced info (they > > > > > > > > are in > > > > > > > > the first tab), as well as *all* the user settings, instead of > > > > > > > > just few > > > > > > > > of them. > > > > > > > The thing that I try is to put all the settings there in teh > > > > > > > expanded > > > > > > > ccard so we won't need a properties screen anymore. Everyhting > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > be on teh ccard or a window openened with a button on the expanded > > > > > > > ccard. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do I propose this ? Well, we have to much different ways > > > > > > > > > to show > > > > > > > > > user data: I wanted to add inline spaces data (ok, my bad), > > > > > > > > > we will > > > > > > > > > have ccards, we have a properties window and we have a > > > > > > > > > tooltip... this > > > > > > > > > should be reduced imo. I think the tooltip has too much > > > > > > > > > information > > > > > > > > > right now. It should have dp/nick/psm/music and not more I > > > > > > > > > guess. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd also add the contact status, because, when using the small > > > > > > > > display > > > > > > > > pictures in place of the contact icon, it can be difficult to > > > > > > > > see if a > > > > > > > > contact is online or offline. > > > > > > > Well, overlaying a status-icon on the ccard's DP should do this. > > > > > > > But > > > > > > > this should also be fixed in teh new CL. sthe status icons > > > > > > > should be > > > > > > > overlayed on the buddy icon, so when the buddyicon is changed > > > > > > > into a > > > > > > > dp, there should still be a status emblem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About this proposal, nick/psm are truncated but they should > > > > > > > > > have a > > > > > > > > > tooltip with the full string. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My question now: what's your opinion about this ? What would > > > > > > > > > you like > > > > > > > > > differently ? ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Karel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: I don't have much time now but I did this as a spare time > > > > > > > > > project > > > > > > > > > between my study-hours; If I don't respond to e-mail > > > > > > > > > quickly, it > > > > > > > > > doesn't mean I'm not interested in your replies thus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > Take Surveys. Earn Cash. 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