2008/6/3 Youness Alaoui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> On 6/2/08, Karel Demeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> 2008/6/2 Youness Alaoui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>>> Humm.. it's a bit weird.. maybe more 'logical' but less intuitive for WLM
>>> users (don't forget that our purpose is to keep the same look&feel to ease
>>> the transition of WLM users).
>>
>>
>> As these are options ppl normally don't change a lot and also won't be
>> changed by a lot of ppl, I think it's OK to have another menu-structure,
>> surely if this structure would be very intuitive so anyone could quickly
>> find it. IMHO, I don't think a lot of WLM users ever use the menu's at all
>> so they won't even know where to find what. If they would use amsn and use
>> a menu, the best thing to have would be the most intuitive and user-friendly
>> menu.
>> On another note, if you want to stay close to WLM, it means you have to
>> change the structure all over again once they change which would be a huge
>> job for something like the menu system that isn't very much used IMO.
>>
>
> good arguments, to which I will only add another argument : I just realized
> that we probably don't even have the same menu structure as WLM :s
>
ok :)
>
>
>
> Also, the 'sort ascending' and 'sort descending' look like they would act
>>> on whatever the sorting is, while it should actually by 'sort alphabetically
>>> ascending' and 'sort alphabetically descending'.
>>
>>
>> In fact, in my plan, it would act on every sorting. So you could sort
>> ascending/descending alphabetically but also by ascending/descending log
>> size or ascending/descending by status. I'm not sure how much would have to
>> be changed code-wise to support this though.
>>
>
> I'm not sure about that... people wouldn't want the top users to be the
> least talked to.. and the use case could be that someone uses descending
> sorting, then he chooses sort by log size, and doesn't realize it's sorting
> it in reverse order...
>
How many times will this happen ? IMHO, not a lot. Someone who chooses to
sort contacts descending (wouldn't know why ... because all his/her friends'
nick start with X, Y or Z ? Then he/she should sort by log size so his/her
friends will appear on top :p, anyway)
If this "sort descending by log size" wouldn't be implementable or would be
just stupid, it would be ok to disable the "ascending/descending" options
when the kind of sorting is chosen to be "by log size". Also then, the
option should be set to "ascending" before disabling the possibility to
change it.
Eventually you could "remember" in a hidden config the state this option had
before the sorting was changed to "by log size" so you could revert it
afterwards, but this might even not be needed.
>
> Also, for users with the same log size (mostly 0K), the 'sort
>>> alphabetically' would be important to keep... so we shouldn't have a radio
>>> button between the sort alphabetically and the sort by how much I talk to
>>> them...
>>
>>
>> Well, for users with the same status (when sorted by status) or the same
>> log size (when sorted this way) should still be sorted alphabetically as
>> there's no other logical way to show 'm otherwise.
>> This means that in the menu, the options stand for:
>>
>> Sort contacts =>
>> o Sort by status (code-wise: sort by status AND alphabet)
>> o Sort by chat log size (code-wise: sort by log size AND alphabet)
>> * Sort alfabetically (only sort alphabetically)
>> ------
>> * Sort ascending (do all the sorting of contacts from top down)
>> o Sort descending (do all the sorting of contacts from bottom
>> up)
>> ------
>> [v]Use contactgroups (use groups, don't just put in
>> online/offline groups)
>> [v]Group offline contacts (use what we now call the hybrid mode)
>>
>> etc.
>>
>> I know from a developpers point of view it might sound dull to have to
>> "alphabetical sorting" also "on" even when the option isn't called so but
>> you should think from the interface/user's standpoint.
>>
>
>
> two things :
> 1 - I don't like the "use contactgroups" and I know it's just a name you
> came up with, but I'm not sure any other naming would make it clear and
> intuitive to users that you need to enable a checkbox to see your groups,
> otherwise, it will be online/offline groups...
>
Not sure, but will making it a "Don't put my contacts in groups" (making it
the opposite, with default OFF) option better ? This way you have to check
a box to get rid off the groups. Only ppl who know what they do or want to
see what it does will check this box anyway.
>
>
> 2 - the sort by status should also be checkbox-able. I just made a change
> so that the sort by status takes precedence over the sort by logsize, as
> requested in the forums.. if you do 'sort by logsize' and you don't have the
> 'sort by status' enabled, then you would see the people you talk to the most
> on top, even if they are offline (assuming you use group sorting), which is
> not very good (from our dear user's point of view).
>
> Also, I like the idea of "sort by log size" because it's clear, it says
>>> what it does, people won't get confused... while a user might say "why isn't
>>> it working" while he has logs disabled... logically, a 'sort by how much I
>>> talk to them' would mean that amsn would keep an internal counter on how
>>> many times we opened the chat window with that contact...
>>
>>
>> That was not my meaning. I asked for English speaking ppl to help out as
>> I can't say what I want clearly :). "Sort by chat log size" sounds ok for
>> me now.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> what are your thoughts ?
>>
>>
>>
>> They're up here :). BTW: I somewhere(in your nick?) read you're allmost
>> getting married. Congrats!
>>
>
> Thanks :)
>
>
>> About this mail subject: possibly my idea will only get through if I code
>> it myself (put my code where my mouth is ;)) but I on't have any time for it
>> soon so chances are 0 I will.
>> I hope you get my point though :).
>>
>>
>> I also hope not to sound arrogant or whatever (I'm always afraid for this
>> when speaking another language).
>>
>
> never :)
>
I hope this wasn't ironic :).
>
> Friendly greeting,
>>
>> Karel.
>>
> ² ! :)
>
>>
>>>
>>> KaKaRoTo
>>>
>>> On 6/1/08, Karel Demeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Forgot the option how to sort groups. Here's the whole thing now: (for
>>>> info, check the other mail)
>>>>
>>>> Sort contacts =>
>>>> o Sort by status
>>>> o Sort by how much I talk to them
>>>> * Sort alfabetically
>>>> ------
>>>> * Sort ascending
>>>> o Sort descending
>>>> ------
>>>> [v]Use contactgroups
>>>> [v]Group offline contacts
>>>> [ ]Hide offline group
>>>> [v]Group non-IM contacts
>>>> [ ]Hide non-IM group
>>>> -------
>>>> Change appearance of contacts ...
>>>> -------
>>>> * Sort groups ascending
>>>> o Sort groups descending
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2008/6/1 Karel Demeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2008/6/1 Tom Hennigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How about a radical re-shuffle of the View menu?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> View =>
>>>>>> Sort groups by =>
>>>>>> Status
>>>>>> Groups
>>>>>> Hybridsort
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> How can you sort groups by status? They don't have a status themselves,
>>>>> right ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sort contacts by =>
>>>>>> Ascending
>>>>>> Descending
>>>>>> ----------------
>>>>>> Status
>>>>>> How much I talk to them
>>>>>> Show as =>
>>>>>> Nickname
>>>>>> Email
>>>>>> Group contacts =>
>>>>>> Offline (IE. Hybrid)
>>>>>> Non-IM
>>>>>> Hide groups =>
>>>>>> Non-IM
>>>>>> Offline
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There's too many submenu's this way IMHO. I cant recall what most
>>>>> guidelines say about this now but I think having a submenu for a choice
>>>>> between 2 things is "not done"
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Move "Change Global Nick" to Actions menu.
>>>>>>
>>>>> This is and should stay a "View" thing as it changes the "view" of the
>>>>> CL. The menu title is not "view" as in the verb.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What about:
>>>>>
>>>>> Sort contacts =>
>>>>> o Sort by status
>>>>> o Sort by how much I talk to them
>>>>> * Sort alfabetically
>>>>> ------
>>>>> * Sort ascending
>>>>> o Sort descending
>>>>> ------
>>>>> [v]Use contactgroups
>>>>> [v]Group offline contacts
>>>>> [ ]Hide offline group
>>>>> [v]Group non-IM contacts
>>>>> [ ]Hide non-IM group
>>>>> Change appearance of contacts ...
>>>>> (clicking this pops up a window to change the "global nick" where
>>>>> you
>>>>> can alo choose to only show the email-adress)
>>>>>
>>>>> This way th "View" menu would only have 2 items, the first being that
>>>>> subenu. THe "o" and "*" are radio buttons where the latter is the default
>>>>> selected item. the "[ ]" and "[v]" are checkboxes where the latter is a
>>>>> default checked item.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have too much time for a lengthy discussion about this so if
>>>>> there's too much worng with this idea, just discard it. I hope it's well
>>>>> thought-out though :p.
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> Karel.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> - Tom
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1 Jun 2008, at 12:49, Karel Demeyer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another note: this wording is like what I was aming for in my other
>>>>>> mail :).
>>>>>> Sort contacts by:
>>>>>> group
>>>>>> status
>>>>>> hybrid
>>>>>> how much I talk to them
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If those native english speakers here (they all seem to be called
>>>>>> "Tom" somehow) could find anything shorter that says the same thing it
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be superb.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2008/6/1 Tom Hennigan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about: "Sort Contacts by how much I talk to them"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just a thought, if logging is disabled, then we don't have a record
>>>>>>> of how much people talk to them.. So the option won't do anything.. The
>>>>>>> menu
>>>>>>> item should not be there if logging isn't enabled (or at least
>>>>>>> disabled)...
>>>>>>> - Tom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1 Jun 2008, at 11:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2008/6/1 Youness Alaoui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> added the UI for.. anyone care to comment ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey,
>>>>>>> I'm hardly ever on msn anymore, but I noticed in the commit the lang
>>>>>>> key is 'Sort by log size' - I think 'Show people I talk to most first'
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> better worded would be good; this way newbies can see what the thing
>>>>>>> is...
>>>>>>> that way the command says _what_ it does, not _how_ it does it...make
>>>>>>> sense?
>>>>>>> Just my 2p!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 01:24:34AM -0400, Youness Alaoui wrote:
>>>>>>>> > Hello...
>>>>>>>> > I added a 'sort by log size' feature to aMSN.. question is..
>>>>>>>> > how should it be done in the UI to make it user-friendly.. I
>>>>>>>> > thought have the 'sort by log size' checkbox next to 'sort
>>>>>>>> > ascending' and 'sort descending' but those two act more like
>>>>>>>> > radio buttons than checkboxes, so adding a third,
>>>>>>>> > non-radio-like-behavior option would not fit...
>>>>>>>> > Karel.. any ideas ?
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > KaKaRoTo
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > ----- Forwarded message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Log Message:
>>>>>>>> > -----------
>>>>>>>> > New feature : sort by log size.. very nice to see the most often
>>>>>>>> talked to people at the top of your CL.
>>>>>>>> > enable-able with the console, GUI will come soon once we decide
>>>>>>>> how to put it nicely and 'user-friendly'...
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Modified Paths:
>>>>>>>> > --------------
>>>>>>>> > trunk/amsn/config.tcl
>>>>>>>> > trunk/amsn/protocol.tcl
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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