I have witnessed this discussion about what constitutes a page view
repeatedly over the last months, and suspect that it is only going to
get murkier the more interactive and non-navigation features we add.
Some of these decisions are somewhat arbitrary, making the page view
metric a less accurate indicator for the true engagement of users with
our site.

I think we should complement pageviews with a new metric that
side-steps a binary 1/0 decision: Time on Site. I have written up some
thoughts on this at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T119352.

Gabriel

On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:13 AM, Oliver Keyes <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have been informed MW Core no longer exists. Fair catch ;p. But this
> is software development, not Oprah - product ownership is not
> something under the seat of every audience member. Someone needs to
> actually own the definition. I don't mind if it's AnEng, Research,
> Readership, Search, whoever, but it being an unknown and undisclosed
> responsibility that falls on the shoulders of everyone is a really bad
> way of doing it.
>
> This is an organisational metric. Someone needs to own it.
>
> On 3 December 2015 at 13:11, Oliver Keyes <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Sure, but ownership does not mean "knows everything" it means "Makes
>> sure it gets done". MediaWiki is owned by everyone, sure, but the
>> actual idea of what MediaWiki core is has a team. The MediaWiki core
>> team.
>>
>> On 3 December 2015 at 13:07, Nuria Ruiz <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>So the pageview definition, one of our core organisational KPIs, is owned
>>>> simultaneously by everyone?
>>> Sure, just like mediawiki codebase is collectively own.
>>>
>>> Personally I do not see that as a problem and regardless I think it reflects
>>> reality, analytics team -as I mentioned before- doesn't have the knowledge
>>> or authority to "decide" what constitutes a search pageview without talking
>>> to the team/devs/community memebers that actually know how search works.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Oliver Keyes <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So the pageview definition, one of our core organisational KPIs, is
>>>> owned simultaneously by everyone?
>>>>
>>>> On 3 December 2015 at 12:54, Nuria Ruiz <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> >>Who does own it?
>>>> > On our opinion every team should own the definition of a pageview in
>>>> > their
>>>> > product right and when in doubt analytics or research can be involved to
>>>> > provide feedback on lessons learned.
>>>> >
>>>> > For example: who is best qualified than IOS team to decide what
>>>> > constitutes
>>>> > a page in the IOS app?
>>>> >
>>>> > With that in mind I have created a ticket to define what constitutes a
>>>> > Search pageview: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T120249
>>>> >
>>>> > Let me know what is a good discovery project to tag this ticket with so
>>>> > this
>>>> > ticket gets some visibility.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks,
>>>> >
>>>> > Nuria
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:44 AM, Oliver Keyes <[email protected]>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 2 December 2015 at 15:38, Nuria Ruiz <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> >> >>It's true that MediaWiki supports search based solely on the ?search
>>>> >> >> query
>>>> >> >> parameter. Regardless of whether title=Special:Search is specified.
>>>> >> >>This is mostly for legacy reasons as search predates the concept of
>>>> >> >> special
>>>> >> >> pages.
>>>> >> >>However, would it make sense to instead count these as page views for
>>>> >> >> 'Special:Search'?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > One thing worth clarifying is that analytics team doesn't own the
>>>> >> > pageview
>>>> >> > definition (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Page_view), we
>>>> >> > implement it to the best of our ability. Deciding what constitutes a
>>>> >> > pageview for search falls on the search team as they are the ones
>>>> >> > that
>>>> >> > know
>>>> >> > their functionality best (substitute "search team" by "some entity
>>>> >> > with
>>>> >> > knowledge of mediawiki's search abilities") According to Timo's
>>>> >> > comment
>>>> >> > it
>>>> >> > seems that "?search" requests should be counted as true pageviews but
>>>> >> > let us
>>>> >> > know otherwise via phab ticket or this list.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Who does own it?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > Thanks,
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Nuria
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 11:57 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo)
>>>> >> > <[email protected]>
>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Oliver Keyes, 02/12/2015 18:52:
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> Via Brian Davis we find out the responsible patch is
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>> https://github.com/wikimedia/analytics-refinery-source/commit/05e5da92553dbd3e691eb45d40e559895337935f
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Context:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research_talk:Page_view/Archive_1#Parameters_appended_to_short_URLs
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Nemo
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> Analytics mailing list
>>>> >> >> [email protected]
>>>> >> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> > Analytics mailing list
>>>> >> > [email protected]
>>>> >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Oliver Keyes
>>>> >> Count Logula
>>>> >> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>> >>
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> Analytics mailing list
>>>> >> [email protected]
>>>> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Analytics mailing list
>>>> > [email protected]
>>>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Oliver Keyes
>>>> Count Logula
>>>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Analytics mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Analytics mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Oliver Keyes
>> Count Logula
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>
>
>
> --
> Oliver Keyes
> Count Logula
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> _______________________________________________
> Analytics mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/analytics



-- 
Gabriel Wicke
Principal Engineer, Wikimedia Foundation

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