Sounds like something to look at then. Since there are a lot of C programs/games out there that would be great to have if we didn't have to rewrite them in Java. (image processing/codecs/MAME,more office tools, etc) Maybe we can end up with a nice re-usable Android front end to easily connect to lots of C (faster) programs. (until/if we get the native SDK from Google)
I think the developer probably did a great job from what I have seen so far. It is not perfect yet, but the several revisions I saw showed constant improvement and more and more features/stability. I'll buy it later in the week when I re-flash my phone back to a working image. On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 6:11 PM, Michael MacDonald <[email protected]> wrote: > I had been inclined to request a refund for this but since the developer did > in fact provide the source and the source seems to include everything-- the > source for the JNI library based on PrBoom as well as the Android SDK app > that calls it-- I think I might hang on to it. > > It's got a basic implementation of SDL that interfaces with the SDK UI, > which is interesting. > > I don't think it's a well-behaved app, though. It looks like it will keep > running while hidden (if you get a phone call, for instance). Perhaps that > can be cleaned up. > > > Al Sutton wrote: > > Well, it was an interesting discussion, but after some hunting around the > developer has been good with the source code and made it available at > http://playerx.sourceforge.net/doom/doomsource.zip > > And from this (very interesting) discussion the dev is free to charge for it > on Market as long as they don't try to stop other people re-distributing it. > > Thanks all for a very informative thread. > > Al. > > --- > > * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * > > ====== > Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the > company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, > 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. > > The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not > necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's > subsidiaries. > > > ________________________________ > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Disconnect > Sent: 15 April 2009 18:50 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [android-discuss] Re: Developer Ethics > > Good catch. Further reading supports that also: > > If I distribute GPL'd software for a fee, am I required to also make it > available to the public without a charge? > > No. However, if someone pays your fee and gets a copy, the GPL gives them > the freedom to release it to the public, with or without a fee. For example, > someone could pay your fee, and then put her copy on a web site for the > general public. > > ..so you still have to pay the $4 but yah, you can then immediately stick it > on the web. (And "pay the fee" is pretty clearly not a "buy and return" > condition. And-and the copyright holder can theoretically license it as many > different ways as they choose - so gpl on their site and commercial on the > market is a legitimate model, -if- you hold a pure copyright.) > > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Al Sutton <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> From http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhatDoesWrittenOfferValid; >> >> If you commercially distribute binaries not accompanied with source code, >> the GPL says you must provide a written offer to distribute the source >> code >> later. When users non-commercially redistribute the binaries they received >> from you, they must pass along a copy of this written offer. This means >> that >> people who did not get the binaries directly from you can still receive >> copies of the source code, along with the written offer. >> >> So it looks like the GPL does cover binaries. >> >> Al. >> >> >> --- >> >> * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * >> >> ====== >> Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the >> company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, >> 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. >> >> The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not >> necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's >> subsidiaries. >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Disconnect >> Sent: 15 April 2009 18:37 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [android-discuss] Re: Developer Ethics >> >> >> I think - although I don't have time to dig right now - that you might >> fail >> at the "email to someone else" step, since the gpl doesn't address >> distribution of -binaries- and the android market (or whatever point of >> sale >> you are using) does. >> >> But... if its that important :) someone kick the $4, keep the app (no >> refund) and then request source. Put it on the web next to a 'donate' >> button, and step 3 will follow automatically :) >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Al Sutton <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> I've done some digging around and; >> >> >> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic >> >> Says you're right, it does only need to go to users. >> >> However, http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLCommercially >> is >> interesting in that it implies that the software can't be copy >> protected. >> >> And >> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhatDoesWrittenOfferValid >> implies that even if you get a copy of the app for free from >> another >> Android >> owner then you still have access to the code. >> >> So, in theory, you could download the app, email the APK to someone >> else, >> get a refund, and they would still have a claim to the source code. >> >> Very interesting. >> >> >> Al. >> >> >> >> >> --- >> >> * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * >> >> ====== >> Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the >> company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, >> 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. >> >> The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not >> necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or >> it's >> subsidiaries. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sean Hodges >> >> Sent: 15 April 2009 17:51 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [android-discuss] Re: Developer Ethics >> >> >> I think the key here is that the GPL does not (and as a license >> cannot) dictate WHO you distribute to. It only dictates HOW you are >> allowed >> to distribute when you do. >> >> The passage you quoted Al, is stating "All third parties" meaning >> "all >> recipients of this software". Unfortunately this is not clearly >> stated in >> the definition section, but it has no legal standing to mean >> anything else. >> A license only has jurisdiction within the distribution from the >> licensee to >> the recipient. >> >> As an example: Google use modified versions of the Linux kernel in >> their >> server clusters, but I'm fairly certain they don't contribute back >> all of >> those changes. They are not obliged to just because Linux is freely >> available. Of the changes that they do contribute back, most would >> be >> voluntary because they want the changes in future releases. >> This story would be different if they sold people Google Search >> Appliances >> with modified Linux kernels and no corresponding source code, but >> they could >> still potentially put the source code on a CD and just hand it out >> to the >> people that bought the device. >> >> I'll re-iterate that I am not a lawyer, but I find this discussion >> very >> interesting. If someone does consult a lawyer or the SFLC, I'd like >> to hear >> the response. >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Al Sutton <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > There's a difference between not distributing at all and >> distributing >> > it even if it's not directly to me. >> > >> > Section 2 (b) of the GPL v2 reads; >> > >> > "You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in >> whole >> > or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part >> > thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third >> parties >> > under the terms of this License." >> > >> > Which I take to read that the developer shouldn't even be >> charging >> for >> > the binaries. >> > >> > From my recollection this requirement for derived works to be "at >> no >> charge" >> > (i.e. free) was the reason the LGPL was introduced for code >> libraries >> > so that they could be used in commercial products. >> > >> > Al. >> > >> > --- >> > >> > * Written an Android App? - List it at http://andappstore.com/ * >> > >> > ====== >> > Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales with the >> > company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp >> House, >> > 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. >> > >> > The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not >> > necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or >> it's >> > subsidiaries. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Disconnect >> > Sent: 15 April 2009 17:10 >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: [android-discuss] Re: Developer Ethics >> > >> > >> > GPL covers redistribution - if you don't have the new bins, >> nobody >> has >> > distributed it, and it does not apply. >> > >> > (That, indirectly, leads to one of ESR & co's big complaints - I >> can >> > create a webapp under the gpl and never, ever release sources >> unless I >> > distribute the app. To pick on our hosts :) google groups could >> be >> > entirely based on GPL software, and until/unless they bundle it >> in >> an >> > appliance or something, we'd never even know much less be able to >> get >> > code.) >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Al Sutton <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > Does it?, I'm not required to have the binary in order to >> get >> > the original source code, so wouldn't it be an additional >> requirement >> (i.e. >> > against the GPL), to say I need it for the Android port? >> > >> > Al. >> > >> > --- >> > >> > * Written an Android App? - List it at >> http://andappstore.com/ >> > <http://andappstore.com/> * >> > >> > ====== >> > Funky Android Limited is registered in England & Wales >> with >> the >> > company number 6741909. The registered head office is >> Kemp >> > House, >> > 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. >> > >> > The views expressed in this email are those of the author >> and >> > not >> > necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's >> associates, or >> > it's >> > subsidiaries. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Disconnect >> > Sent: 15 April 2009 15:03 >> > >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: [android-discuss] Re: Developer Ethics >> > >> > >> > >> > That license only applies when you have the binary >> already. >> So >> > "prove you legally acquired the binary" is a legitimate question. >> (And >> > "oops I didn't see your email yesterday" covers the 24h return >> period >> > as well. The GPL doesn't require you to be instantly available >> 24/7.) >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 9:32 AM, Al Sutton >> > <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > As far as I know he can't demand to see payment >> before >> > handing over the >> > source code. >> > >> > From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL; >> > >> > "The distribution rights granted by the GPL for >> > modified versions of the >> > work are not unconditional. When someone >> distributes a >> > GPL'd work plus their >> > own modifications, the requirements for >> distributing >> > the whole work cannot >> > be any greater than the requirements that are in >> the GPL." >> > >> > So due to the original Doom source code being >> freely >> > distributable and >> > usable the author can't add on the requirement >> that >> I >> > pay for the >> > application. >> > >> > >> > Al. >> > >> > --- >> > >> > * Written an Android App? - List it at >> > http://andappstore.com/ * >> > >> > ====== >> > Funky Android Limited is registered in England & >> Wales >> > with the >> > company number 6741909. The registered head >> office >> is >> > Kemp House, >> > 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. >> > >> > The views expressed in this email are those of the >> > author and not >> > necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's >> > associates, or it's >> > subsidiaries. >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: [email protected] >> > [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf >> Of >> > Sean Hodges >> > >> > Sent: 15 April 2009 14:16 >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: [android-discuss] Re: Developer Ethics >> > >> > >> > Rapidshare? :) >> > >> > The developer is allowed to sell GPL software, he >> just >> > has to provide the >> > source code to the people that have the >> application. >> > With that in mind, he >> > may demand proof of payment before giving you his >> > latest source code. >> > >> > I'd imagine it wouldn't be too much work to take a >> > recent Linux port of the >> > Doom engine (like PRBoom) and modify the code to >> use >> > Android compatible >> > libraries. The interesting bit would be getting >> the >> > native C engine working >> > in an APK. I'm not sure how that is done, perhaps >> > someone else might be able >> > to shed some light on it? >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:03 PM, Al Sutton >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > Any way you know of getting the APK without >> paying >> > the $3.99? >> > > >> > > Al. >> > > --- >> > > >> > > * Written an Android App? - List it at >> > http://andappstore.com/ * >> > > >> > > ====== >> > > Funky Android Limited is registered in England & >> > Wales with the >> > > company number 6741909. The registered head >> office >> > is Kemp House, >> > > 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. >> > > >> > > The views expressed in this email are those of >> the >> > author and not >> > > necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's >> > associates, or it's >> > > subsidiaries. >> > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf >> > Of Sean Hodges >> > > Sent: 15 April 2009 12:55 >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: [android-discuss] Re: Developer Ethics >> > > >> > > >> > > Ah, I see :) Well it may not be available >> on-line. If >> > not, you should >> > > request it directly from the developer by email >> (the >> > GPL only demands >> > > that the source is made available on request). >> I'd be >> > interested in >> > > how you get on obtaining the source, as I might >> ask >> > for a copy myself. >> > > >> > > It's worth checking the contents of the Doom APK >> file >> > as well, the >> > > source code may have been bundled in the >> archive. >> > > >> > > >> > > On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Al Sutton >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> > >> I think you missed my point :), The GPL means >> the >> > source of the >> > >> *Android >> > >> port* needs to be available. If it is it'd be a >> > great project for >> > >> potential game devs to cut their teeth on. >> > >> >> > >> Al. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> --- >> > >> >> > >> * Written an Android App? - List it at >> > http://andappstore.com/ * >> > >> >> > >> ====== >> > >> Funky Android Limited is registered in England >> & >> > Wales with the >> > >> company number 6741909. The registered head >> office >> > is Kemp House, >> > >> 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. >> > >> >> > >> The views expressed in this email are those of >> the >> > author and not >> > >> necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, >> it's >> > associates, or it's >> > >> subsidiaries. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >> From: [email protected] >> > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf >> > Of Sean Hodges >> > >> Sent: 15 April 2009 12:09 >> > >> To: [email protected] >> > >> Subject: [android-discuss] Re: Developer Ethics >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Al, >> > >> >> > >> The source code is available on id's FTP >> server: >> > >> >> > >> ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/source/ >> > >> >> > >> As I said, this excludes the game data, as that >> is >> > still under a >> > >> commercial licence. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 12:03 PM, Al Sutton >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_source_port >> > indicates the Doom >> > >>> source code is GPLed which means that the >> source >> > should be freely >> > >> available. >> > >>> >> > >>> Has anyone seen it? >> > >>> >> > >>> Al. >> > >>> --- >> > >>> >> > >>> * Written an Android App? - List it at >> > http://andappstore.com/ * >> > >>> >> > >>> ====== >> > >>> Funky Android Limited is registered in England >> & >> > Wales with the >> > >>> company number 6741909. The registered head >> office >> > is Kemp House, >> > >>> 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. >> > >>> >> > >>> The views expressed in this email are those of >> the >> > author and not >> > >>> necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, >> it's >> > associates, or it's >> > >>> subsidiaries. >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> -----Original Message----- >> > >>> From: [email protected] >> > >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf >> > Of Sean Hodges >> > >>> Sent: 15 April 2009 11:23 >> > >>> To: [email protected] >> > >>> Subject: [android-discuss] Re: Developer >> Ethics >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> I don't see why not, ethically... Assuming >> he/she >> > ported it, >> > >>> packaged it, and paid for the market account >> to >> > publish it. The >> > >>> textures and game data are not covered by the >> GPL >> > license I believe, >> > >>> so he may need permission from id Software to >> sell >> > that (don't take >> > >>> my >> > > word on that). >> > >>> >> > >>> Of course, whether it's a popular decision >> with >> the >> > target audience >> > >>> is a different issue altogether :) Also, >> someone >> > else could legally >> > >>> package Doom and distribute on the market for >> free, >> > effectively >> > >>> stealing the customer base. >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Al Sutton >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >>>> >> > >>>> What do people think of the developer selling >> his >> > Android port of >> > >>>> the shareware version of Doom for $3.99 on >> Market? >> > >>>> >> > >>>> Al. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> --- >> > >>>> >> > >>>> * Written an Android App? - List it at >> > http://andappstore.com/ * >> > >>>> >> > >>>> ====== >> > >>>> Funky Android Limited is registered in >> England >> & >> > Wales with the >> > >>>> company number 6741909. The registered head >> > office is Kemp House, >> > >>>> 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> The views expressed in this email are those >> of >> the >> > author and not >> > >>>> necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, >> it's >> > associates, or >> > >>>> it's subsidiaries. >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> >> > >>>> > >> > >>>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > >> > >>> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Discuss" group. 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