You guys have provided excellent feedback and it has gotten me to thinking. Many years ago, I was a quant doing portfolio benchmarking and time-series forecasting and this problem of ranking applications is very similar to portfolio benchmarking (for some inexplicable reason this didn't occur to me before).
With some basic factors like Eric mentioned, I can create a model that will rank applications and that takes into account factors such as spam. Also rankings can have some type of exponential smoothing factors (weighting recent events more). For sure, I'll put a spam button on site initially and then after getting more than a handful of apps start implementing some basic models. Keep the ideas coming! It is helping a lot. On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Eric F <[email protected]> wrote: > Limiting developers to 5 apps isn't going to reduce the number of bad > apps at all. It is also not going to reduce the number of spam apps. > It is simply going to make the task of putting up spam apps more > tedious. The real spam solution is to mark apps as spam and have a > good algorithm to detect quality user spam reports and prevent > malicious use of the spam button (somebody marks the official eBay > client as spam for example). > > Just use a sensible system and it will work out. I feel like because > Android market doesn't even make an attempt to solve these problems > you think these problems are gigantic. They are not. Clearly identify > the problem of the Android market. You either have to know the name of > the app you want and search (this does not support discovery). Or you > get to look at Top (Paid/Free) and see a list of the most widely known > apps you've looked at 100 times before (also does not help discovery > much. we all know there's a twitter client). Or you can look at "Just > in" (overwhelmed by an uncontrolled spam problem, and hence does not > help discovery). > > Simply solve the spam problem and "Just in" becomes helpful. Add a > view that allows an app that is two weeks old has an average of 4.5 > stars and 300 ratings to be listed alongside an older established app > with ~4-5stars with 70,000 ratings and you are almost there. > > Go one step forward and say users who rated X and Y also at 5 stars > like you did also installed app Z which you don't have yet, take a > look! > > All of these suggestions improve the situation without making honest > developers your adversary. > > -E > > On May 19, 8:21 am, Shane Isbell <[email protected]> wrote: > > My intention is to allow additional apps on a case-by-case basis. > > > > When thinking about any new app store one of the most critical issues is > > discovery: how are people going to find an app they want? What I'm trying > to > > do here is to reduce the resistance between a user finding an app they > want > > and actually purchasing that application. Having lots of apps that people > > don't want means lower sales for top apps. > > > > So you can put your five top apps in front of users without having to > worry > > about being flooded by dictionary apps, free apps, spam apps or apps that > > have little potential of generating sales (dead space). Every bad app > loses > > your top app sales. > > > > Does this make sense? > > > > On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 7:34 AM, westmeadboy <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > I agree with plusminus. A limitation of 5 apps doesn't make any sense. > > > > > 1. Over time, any given dev will release more and more apps. Also, as > > > the dev (house) grows it has the capability to release more apps in > > > any given time frame. Both of these indicate that a hard app limit > > > does not make sense. > > > > > 2. If there is no support for add-ons then you need to provide a way > > > for devs to make their various "flavours" of an app visible - see what > > > I wrote about bilingual dictionaries. > > > > > 3. Provide a way for users to mark apps or devs or both as spam and > > > then use that spam information to decrease app/dev visibility/ranking > > > in search results. > > > > > On May 19, 4:06 pm, plusminus <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Huh 5 Apps... I have 29 in there while I'm writing this. More in the > > > > pipe =D > > > > > > On 18 Mai, 18:33, Shane Isbell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Everyone, thanks for the feedback. To reduce spam. I've decided to > > > limit the > > > > > number of apps to 5 for zappmarket. > > > > > > > Based on developer feedback (which was great), I've also decided to > > > scrap > > > > > version 1 of zapp. Either I couldn't address specific needs of > > > developers > > > > > (like piracy) or many core needs were being addressed elsewhere. > > > Developers > > > > > did provide a few key pain points in regards to selling apps that > > > aren't > > > > > being addressed but this requires a completely different approach > to > > > > > traditional app markets. I'm working on a new version of zappmarket > to > > > > > provide a solution. I'm still at least a month away (no specific > date), > > > but > > > > > I'll keep you guys posted. > > > > > > > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Maps.Huge.Info (Maps API Guru) < > > > > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Perhaps a limit of 5 with additional apps upon approval by > Google. It > > > > > > could be a simple thing like Godaddy has for requesting IP's. You > get > > > > > > one, you can get two more by just asking and if you want more > than > > > > > > that, you have to have a good reason. > > > > > > > > -John Coryat > > > > > > > > On May 4, 2:27 pm, Shane Isbell <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > So maybe put a hard limit to the number of apps a single > developer > > > can > > > > > > > upload? > > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 4:49 AM, westmeadboy < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > There are lots of bilingual dictionary apps out there. One > > > company has > > > > > > > > over 100 I think. Clearly they use the same engine for each > and > > > just > > > > > > > > change the content. Not sure if this is considered spam. > > > > > > > > > > Ideally they would just have one app on the market and then > > > through > > > > > > > > that app users could pay for/download whatever > > > content/dictionaries > > > > > > > > they want. > > > > > > > > > > The problem with this is that the content/dictionaries would > not > > > have > > > > > > > > the necessary visibility in the Market. Therefore, the vast > > > majority > > > > > > > > of users, when searching for say a Chinese-English > dictionary, > > > would > > > > > > > > not realise they could use that app to fulfil their needs. > > > > > > > > > > When searching the Market, I'd like to see Google > Search-style > > > results > > > > > > > > where apps from the same dev are grouped so you only see the > > > first 3 > > > > > > > > and a link to "more apps", just like how Google Search groups > > > results > > > > > > > > by website. > > > > > > > > > > When browsing a category, I would do a similar kind of > grouping. > > > > > > > > > > I really hope Google Market brings in proper support for > add-ons > > > which > > > > > > > > would make all this a little easier to manage. > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 30, 6:45 pm, Eric F <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I would say junky apps would include Themes, Background > > > Wallpapers > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > Content as apps. > > > > > > > > > > > Themes are everywhere, for home screen replacements I don't > > > even have > > > > > > > > > installed. They aren't spam, I'm sure many of them are > actually > > > > > > > > > reasonably decent and shouldn't be removed from the market. > But > > > I > > > > > > > > > think they should when uploaded to the market be required > to > > > put in > > > > > > > > > some kind of "requires aHome to be installed". And the end > > > user's > > > > > > > > > market should have a setting for "Hide add-ons for not > > > installed > > > > > > > > > apps". And while apps like Locale, the big draw is the > number > > > of > > > > > > > > > plugins it has for it, so if users didn't see that they > might > > > not > > > > > > > > > understand how big that ecosystem is, so having that option > be > > > off by > > > > > > > > > default would be ok with me (even though I think most users > > > would > > > > > > > > > prefer it on) > > > > > > > > > > > The Background Wallpapers and Content as apps is where > someone > > > > > > creates > > > > > > > > > an app that does nothing more than say, show 1 funny image > (as > > > > > > opposed > > > > > > > > > to connect to a remote site and allow users to browse > through a > > > whole > > > > > > > > > content set). Or the app is just a scanned version of a > comic > > > book, > > > > > > > > > etc. For one thing, it would benefit the user the most if > > > content > > > > > > > > > providers adopted a sub-platform for distribution that > wasn't > > > the > > > > > > > > > market (but I think billing, and getting paid is something > hard > > > to do > > > > > > > > > so I don't see this happening). But it would be better if > > > people > > > > > > > > > downloaded some e-Reader type application off the market, > and > > > then > > > > > > > > > bought comic books through that application. Better user > > > experience, > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > user who wants 1000 comic books on his/her phone doesn't > have > > > an app > > > > > > > > > drawer that is ungodly, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > Since it's unrealistic that the above will ever happen, I > don't > > > know > > > > > > > > > how much thought went into the market categories. Did they > do > > > market > > > > > > > > > research to figure out what the top N categories were for > > > > > > applications > > > > > > > > > and games? Or did some person out there just pick them out > of a > > > hat? > > > > > > > > > But a good temporary solution is stuffing these dumb > content > > > apps > > > > > > into > > > > > > > > > their own categories and allowing users to have a filter > > > settings in > > > > > > > > > the market. So that they can say "Filter out the following > > > categories > > > > > > > > > when browsing" and "Filter out results in the following > > > categories > > > > > > > > > while searching". Then you could even have a parental > control > > > there > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > assist with the Girly apps. > > > > > > > > > > > Then the only remaining part of the system is what to do > when > > > the > > > > > > > > > spammy app makers don't categorize or tag their apps > correctly. > > > And > > > > > > > > > the solution there is to make app developers sign an > agreement > > > that > > > > > > > > > states that they understand that their submitted > > > categorizations etc. > > > > > > > > > are only hints to the market, and that final meta-data is > > > decided by > > > > > > > > > some kind of voting/ranking/wiki community style. > > > > > > > > > > > Market needs vast improvements.. soon. > > > > > > > > > > > -E > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 30, 8:34 am, Shane Isbell <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What kinds of junky paid apps are there on the Android > > > Market? I > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > slideshows of pretty girls is one type of junky app. Are > > > there any > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > > > > types that flood the market, distracting from the higher > > > quality > > > > > > paid > > > > > > > > apps? > > > > > > > > > > As developers, if there were types of apps you'd like to > see > > > > > > stripped > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > > the Android Market, what kind would they be? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Shane Isbell (Founder of ZappMarket) > > > > >http://twitter.com/sisbellhttp://twitter.com/zappstorehttp://zappmark. > > > > > > .. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to > the > > > Google > > > > > > > > Groups "Android Discuss" group. > > > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > > > [email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]> > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > > > > <android-discuss%[email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]><android-discuss%252Bunsubsc > [email protected]><android-discuss%252Bunsubsc > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > > > > > > groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > > Google > > > > > > Groups > > > > > > > > "Android Discuss" group. > > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > > > [email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]> > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > > > > <android-discuss%[email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]><android-discuss%252Bunsubsc > [email protected]><android-discuss%252Bunsubsc > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > > > > > > groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > > Google > > > > > > Groups > > > > > > > > "Android Discuss" group. > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > > > [email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]> > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > > > > <android-discuss%[email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]><android-discuss%252Bunsubsc > [email protected]><android-discuss%252Bunsubsc > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Shane Isbell (Founder of ZappMarket) > > > > >http://twitter.com/sisbellhttp://twitter.com/zappstorehttp://zappmark. > .. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > > Groups > > > > > > "Android Discuss" group. > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > [email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]> > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > > > > . > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > > > > > > groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > > Groups > > > > > > "Android Discuss" group. > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > [email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]> > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > > > > . > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Shane Isbell (Founder of ZappMarket) > > >http://twitter.com/sisbellhttp://twitter.com/zappstorehttp://zappmark. > .. > > > > > > > -- > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups "Android Discuss" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected]. > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]> > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > > > For more options, visit this group... > > > > > > read more ยป > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "Android Discuss" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]> > <android-discuss%2Bunsubscribe@ googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. > > > > -- > > Shane Isbell (Founder of ZappMarket) > http://twitter.com/sisbellhttp://twitter.com/zappstorehttp://zappmarket.com > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Android Discuss" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]> > . > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Android Discuss" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<android-discuss%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en. > > -- Shane Isbell (Founder of ZappMarket) http://twitter.com/sisbell http://twitter.com/zappstore http://zappmarket.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Android Discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-discuss?hl=en.
