Ah, so your proposal is deleting the "det" entry for "altre" and leaving
only de "adj" entry. And maybe "l'altre" could also be the same, det +
adj? Why do you think it should be only "det" in this case?
I agree with the rest of your proposal.
Mireia
El dv 28 de 01 de 2011 a les 07:18 +0100, en/na Mikel Forcada va
escriure:
> Mireia,
> I see. The problem is that "altre" should also be an adjective, so that
> an adjective can follow a determiner. "l'altre", etc. could be
> determiners. It makes sense: only one determiner per noun phrase (as in
> most languages)
>
> qualsevol altre: det adj
> l'altre: det
> el meu altre: det adj
>
> How does that sound?
>
> Making decisions about parts of speech is not easy but it is worth the
> effort. For instance, I remember the turmoil when in interNOSTRUM we
> decided that "como" would not be a "conjunction" but rather a
> "preposition", as "like" is in the Oxford Learner's Advanced Dictionary.
> Calling it a conjunction didn't help much, but calling it a preposition
> was important when tagging and deciding its translation (como can be
> prep, rel.adv and a verb).
>
> For instance, I don't know what we decided with "fa" in "fa tres anys
> que vinc" ("I come since three years ago"). One could say it is the verb
> "fer" (to do), as it is the case with "enguany Mikel fa 48 anys" ("Mikel
> turns 48 this year") and "que vinc" (that I come) is the subject, but
> what about "va venir fa dos anys" (he came two years ago") o "canta des
> de fa dos anys" ("he sings since two years ago") or "fins fa dos anys"
> ("up to two years ago")? A personal verb cannot follow a preposition, so
> I think we "des de fa" and "fins fa" were christened multiword prepositions.
>
> Cheers
>
> Mikel
>
>
>
> On 01/27/2011 05:11 PM, Mireia wrote:
> > Hola,
> > El dj 27 de 01 de 2011 a les 08:03 +0100, en/na Mikel Forcada va
> > escriure:
> >> Alternative: Instead of fiddling with "qualsevol"'s part of speech,
> >> there is another solution. If the problem is only with
> >>
> >> "qualsevol altre"
> >> "qualsevol altra"
> >> "qualssevol altres"
> >>
> >> Just add them as multiwords and name them "det" as we do with "el meu",
> >> "la meva", etc. How does that sound?
> > It sounds good. But there are some other cases:
> > echo "Els meus altres projectes. El meu altre projecte" | apertium ca-es
> > Mis otros proyectos
> > El mío otro proyecto
> >
> > apertium -d . ca-es-anmor
> > ^Els meus/El meu<det><pos><m><pl>/El meu<prn><tn><pos><m><pl>$
> > ^altres/altre<adj><ind><mf><pl>/altre<det><ind><mf><pl>$
> > ^projectes/projecte<n><m><pl>/projectar<vblex><pri><p2><sg>/projectar<vblex><prs><p2><sg>$
> > ^El meu/El meu<det><pos><m><sg>/El meu<prn><tn><pos><m><sg>$
> > ^altre/altre<adj><ind><m><sg>/altre<det><ind><m><sg>$
> > ^projecte/projecte<n><m><sg>/projectar<vblex><pri><p1><sg>/projectar<vblex><prs><p3><sg>/projectar<vblex><prs><p1><sg>/projectar<vblex><imp><p3><sg>$^./.<sent>$
> >
> > apertium -d . ca-es-tagger
> > ^El meu<det><pos><m><pl>$ ^altre<adj><ind><mf><pl>$ ^projecte<n><m><pl>$
> > ^El meu<prn><tn><pos><m><sg>$ ^altre<det><ind><m><sg>$
> > ^projecte<n><m><sg>$^.<sent>$
> >
> >
> > In some cases the tagger chooses the combination det + adj.ind, whereas
> > in others it chooses prn + det.ind. The first one works in the
> > translation into Spanish, the second one doesn't.
> >
> > Another example:
> > apertium ca-es
> > cap altre dia
> > ninguno otro día
> >
> > It seems the problem is only when "altre" appears as second determiner.
> > The dictionary has already some combinations with "altre": "un altre"
> > and "molts altres" are multiwords, with two entries, one for pronoun and
> > the other for determiner.
> > So maybe it would be good to enter "el meu altre" (det) , "qualsevol
> > altre" (det and prn) and "cap altre" (det and prn) (with all the
> > variations:
> >
> > "qualsevol altre"
> > "qualsevol altra"
> > "qualssevol altres"
> >
> > "el meu altre" - the only one with tagger error
> > "la meva altra" (no tagging error)
> > "els meus altres" (no tagging error)
> > "les meves altres" (no tagging error)
> >
> > "cap altre"
> > "cap altra" (no tagging error)
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> >
> >
> >> By the way, whatever it is done, it should be the same with Spanish
> >> "cualquier otro", "cualesquier otros", etc.
> >>
> >> Mikel
> >>
> >>
> >> "qOn 01/26/2011 10:46 PM, Jimmy O'Regan wrote:
> >>> On 26 January 2011 21:23, Francis Tyers<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> El dc 26 de 01 de 2011 a les 21:19 +0000, en/na Jimmy O'Regan va
> >>>> escriure:
> >>>>> On 26 January 2011 11:59, Francis Tyers<[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>> Hey all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Translating some text from Catalan to Spanish I get a tagging error:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> o qualsevol altre traductor automàtic
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> $ echo "o qualsevol altre traductor automàtic" | apertium -d .
> >>>>>> ca-es-anmor
> >>>>>> ^o/o<cnjcoo>$
> >>>>>> ^qualsevol/qualsevol<adj><mf><sg>/qualsevol<prn><tn><mf><sg>/qualsevol<det><ind><mf><sg>$
> >>>>>> ^altre/altre<adj><ind><m><sg>/altre<det><ind><m><sg>$
> >>>>>> ^traductor/traductor<n><m><sg>$
> >>>>>> ^automàtic/automàtic<adj><m><sg>$^./.<sent>$
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> $ echo "o qualsevol altre traductor automàtic" | apertium -d .
> >>>>>> ca-es-tagger
> >>>>>> ^o<cnjcoo>$ ^qualsevol<prn><tn><mf><sg>$ ^altre<det><ind><m><sg>$
> >>>>>> ^traductor<n><m><sg>$ ^automàtic<adj><m><sg>$^.<sent>$
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> o cualquiera otro traductor automático
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I think here it should choose 'qualsevol' (determiner) as opposed to
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> pronoun. But it could also be that I have an error in my Catalan. Could
> >>>>>> someone who knows Catalan/Spanish well check this out ?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A couple of rule might be
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> FORBID prn.tn + adj.ind
> >>>>>> FORBID prn.tn + det.ind
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Can't work. The forbid rules are not rules, per se, they just insert a
> >>>>> number approaching 0 as the probability of that bigram (which is
> >>>>> P(w2|w1), while you're talking about P(w1|w2)... FWIW, in the cs-pl
> >>>>> draft, I'd put something along the lines of 'the Markov assumption
> >>>>> that a word can be disambiguated solely in terms of left context does
> >>>>> not always hold true', but I was told that was a 'bold statement' and
> >>>>> left it out).
> >>>> Eckhard says stuff like that all the time, maybe you need to move to
> >>>> Denmark ?
> >>>>
> >>> Ah... ok, now I see why it could sound 'bold'. No, in a bigram
> >>> setting, P(w2|w1) is much more reasonable, and for languages like
> >>> English trigrams based on P(w3|w1,w2) are fairly reasonable too, but
> >>> for Czech (etc.) P(w2|w1,w3) is much better (there are many
> >>> situations, especially with soft-stemmed adjectives, where the
> >>> following word is often the only disambiguating context). Hunpos, btw,
> >>> is configurable for either.
> >>>
> >>>> Also, what do you think of adding 'qualsevol' as a predet ?
> >>>>
> >>> Seems reasonable. I'm relatively sure that would not be a new
> >>> ambiguity class, but it'd be worth checking.
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
> > Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
> > Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
> > February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
> > _______________________________________________
> > Apertium-stuff mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Special Offer-- Download ArcSight Logger for FREE (a $49 USD value)!
Finally, a world-class log management solution at an even better price-free!
Download using promo code Free_Logger_4_Dev2Dev. Offer expires
February 28th, so secure your free ArcSight Logger TODAY!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/arcsight-sfd2d
_______________________________________________
Apertium-stuff mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/apertium-stuff
