Skeeve, Again, I suggest you reading APNIC by-laws since you can find answers for many of your questions in below.
> Masato... do you speak officially for Softbank/JTA? You are emailing from your work account. YES. On the apnic-talk and in AMM, I am speaking as a delegate from SoftBank BB which is one of APNIC members, except when I mentioned different affiliate specifically (I have not yet do so in this thread). JFYI, in Policy SIG, I'm speaking as Co-chair except when I mentioned different affiliate specifically (I didn't do so after being elected as co-chair, I believe). My company doesn't allow employees to access personal email accounts from company office while I have a permission to do co-chair's task as a part of my job. So, I need to use my working email address even in Policy SIG to follow and response in real time manner. Rgs, Masato Yamanishi On 14/03/20 23:20, "Skeeve Stevens" <[email protected]> wrote: > Masato/Andy, > > Whatever the report may be from the EC about costs relating to IG - What > position are you in you judge/comment on those resources that are being used? > Do either of you manage the finances for a large organisation? > > I am not saying the investment is too much, or too little... I am simply > trying to understand what you two hope to accomplish with your attacks on > APNIC? > > I have no problems with the information, and I too am interested to know, but > I am suspicious of your motives, which you've not explained here. > > Currently we have the Chair and the Co-Chair of the Policy SIG demanding > information from the APNIC EC, with no stated objective. I am not sure how > either of you see your positions as tenable with the hostile position you are > taking. > > I do not believe you guys are in any position to judge either way whether the > amount that has been spent is too little or too much... > > The questions is... who is capable of judging this? > > Paul Wilson and his team have put a lot of effort into IG over the past few > years... with, from what I understand, not a lot of help from the other RIR's. > Is that fair? Absolutely not. It certainly does seem that APNIC has done and > paid for far more than its fair share of heavy lifting here... > > But, how do you put a price on the stability of the Internet and how it is > governed? Who are you to judge that whether 500k, 1m, 2m 5m is too much to > have been spent in fighting the hard fight against the ITU and ensuring the > future of one of the greatest inventions of our time? > > I also am interested in how much IG has cost us... but mainly from the > perspective of being able to measure the effort that APNIC, and especially > Paul has put into this fight. > > So far I have seen no one question Paul's motive, no one question the benefits > or outcomes of the efforts APNIC has put into IG. All I see at the moment is > people wanting to know how much it has cost the community. > > Again, I ask you Andy and Masato - what are your motives? > > Andy... you make a supposition about why shouldn't you move your membership to > RIPE as a cost savings. You directly stated that your organisation had a > surplus of $18million last year, but that paying an extra $6k would be a > problem. I think you and your organisation should be ashamed of themselves. > An organisation that I am sure has benefited massively from the Internet and > the resources it has had. If you are concerned about the funding and > financial position of APNIC, perhaps you should contribute accordingly. Andy - > do you officially speak for the Victoria University of Wellington as a whole? > > Masato... do you speak officially for Softbank/JTA? You are emailing from your > work account. > > I do not question or deny your rights to ask the questions you are asking, but > the manner and hostile way you are asking them suggests something far more > than you have let on to everyone else on this list. > > My motives for my position are clear and simple. I want to see a stable > Internet, governed according to the principals that it was founded on. As a > member and someone who represents multiple members, I also am more than fine > with the finances of APNIC being used to fight this battle. Ideally, I would > like to see the other RIR's chipping in a proportionate amount of > effort/time/money as well... and if they are not, perhaps compensating APNIC > for doing so. > > But I do very much believe that Paul and APNIC have abundant experience in the > area of Internet Governance and have the passion to fight to protect it. Some > battles are worth fighting for - and this is one of them. Some people care > about tomorrow and can see what will happen if the wrong path is taken. Some > just care about themselves and how things affect them today. > > I also challenge the EC to either support the DG and position he has taken - > or don't... but either way, it should be publicly. But if you don't support > him, you have other issues you need to be sorting out. > > > > > > > ...Skeeve > > Skeeve Stevens - eintellego Networks Pty Ltd > [email protected] ; www.eintellegonetworks.com > <http://www.eintellegonetworks.com/> > > Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve > > facebook.com/eintellegonetworks <http://facebook.com/eintellegonetworks> ; > <http://twitter.com/networkceoau> linkedin.com/in/skeeve > <http://linkedin.com/in/skeeve> > > twitter.com/theispguy <http://twitter.com/theispguy> ; blog: > www.theispguy.com <http://www.theispguy.com/> > > > The Experts Who The Experts Call > Juniper - Cisco - Cloud - Consulting - IPv4 Brokering > > > On Fri, Mar 21, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Masato Yamanishi > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Dear EC members, >> >> I second Andy's request and would like to ask EC members to investigate and >> share it with APNIC members as soon as possible. >> >> Thank you in advance. >> >> Rgs, >> Masato Yamanishi >> >> >> On 14/03/19 17:58, "Andy Linton" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Tony Smith <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hi Andy, >>>> > >>>> > There is no specific cost centre of "Internet governance activities" in >>>> > APNIC. However, Paul provided a list of the activities which may be >>>> > related to Internet governance - I have listed those below this message. >>>> > >>>> > The budget for the Secretariat is developed in consultation with the >>>> APNIC >>>> > EC each year, and approved by the EC before being presented to members. >>>> > The EC are regularly updated throughout the year on the current budget >>>> > status, including expenditure and income, to ensure they are fully >>>> > informed. >>> >>> So the answer here is either "we have no idea how much this all costs" or >>> "we have an idea and we don't want to tell you" or "we have such a wide >>> remit from the EC, we don't care". >>> >>> In the AMM meeting, the APNIC Treasurer said: >>> >>> --- >>>>> >>James Spenceley: One of the things we can do is certainly understand >>>>> the extent of our investment in this. We can work with finance on that. >>>>> In terms of creating a moratorium, I think that is possibly one step too >>>>> far, but as treasurer I would like to understand exactly the investment we >>>>> are making in this space and the materiality of that and continue on >>>>> discussing it. >>> --- >>> >>> and then later in the discussion: >>> >>> --- >>>>> >>Andy Linton: James, you said the moratorium is a step too far, and >>>>> perhaps you are right. But perhaps one of the things that could be done >>>>> here, if we are going to talk to membership, would be to say, as part of >>>>> the accounts would be to break out the true cost of doing the Internet >>>>> governance activities and also try and provide some real measurement of >>>>> the real benefits it brings to this community. I am not convinced, and I >>>>> am sensing a number of other people are not convinced, that the amount of >>>>> resource we spend on it actually brings us the benefits that we claim or >>>>> are claimed for it. Thank you. >>> >>>>> >>James Spenceley: I take that on board. >>> --- >>> >>> So I'm going to ask again - can we see the numbers? Are we talking $500,000, >>> $1m, $2m? >>> >>> Even a low estimate would be good. Over the last twelve months, take a look >>> at: >>> >>> e.g. Paul, Pablo and Adam's travel and accommodation >>> A component for their salaries for the IG work >>> The cost of back filling this time - if they're doing this IG work then >>> other activities go by the board e.g. Sanjaya was recently promoted to >>> Deputy DG >>> The cost of external parties funded to do IG work >>> >>> _______________________________________________ apnic-talk mailing list >>> [email protected]http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-ta >>> lk >> >> _______________________________________________ >> apnic-talk mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk >> > > _______________________________________________ apnic-talk mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk
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