Thanks Sandra. I think it is wrong to assume anyone who assists people in the buying and selling of resources would support the elimination of Demonstrated Needs.
I personally feel that removing demonstrated needs will create a big problem, specially speculators who will buy-up as much address space they can as an investment, sit on it, wait for it to increase in value - even forcing the price up by creating artificial levels of scarcity - and controlling the market through supply limitations. Yes, we are brokers, but we got into this primarily for the benefit of those who need it... not those who are selling it. Our focus is always trying to help those who need it get the best deal - balancing that with education on market realities and the policies involved. An organisation with a ton of cash, buying up as much space as possible, is not just a possibility without demonstrated needs... it WILL happen. RIR's have always issued resources based on demonstrated need. I am not sure why the community is happy to facilitate this probably abuse, just to remove the burden of having to produce some paperwork. I think this is going to come bite them in the ass. But, I am guided by the community, which is why I started the discussion recently... I wanted to see how the community felt... but I personally see that while often the 'good of the community' does prevail, I don't think that has occurred with the removal of demonstrated needs. In the end, we will work within whatever framework that happens, helping those who need resources, obtain them. Also, just to be clear. I am not opposed to earning revenue by helping people do this... but our motivation leans on the side of the need as opposed to selling for the highest price possible. This is why we don't work on a commission basis and our fees are static and not based on what they are sold for, but the size of the resources. ...Skeeve *Skeeve Stevens - Senior IP Broker* *v4Now - *an eintellego Networks service [email protected] ; www.v4now.com Phone: 1300 239 038; Cell +61 (0)414 753 383 ; skype://skeeve facebook.com/v4now ; <http://twitter.com/networkceoau> linkedin.com/in/skeeve twitter.com/theispguy ; blog: www.theispguy.com IP Address Brokering - Introducing sellers and buyers On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 12:42 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 05/06/14 03:50, Skeeve Stevens wrote: > > Hi Elvis, > > > > I've been pondering just this kind of policy proposal for the APNIC > > region - which is why I started the thread to see what the communities > > thoughts on DN was. > > Well, I have seen Sandra's proposal in the RIPE Region and I was > impressed on how well it was made. That is why I asked her if she would > be willing to come up with the same proposal (or something similar) for > the APNIC region. Just because she has already done most of the work, > and it was work very well done :) > > If she does not respond or does not want/have the time to propose a > policy change in APNIC, we should definitely start working on something > to present at APNIC38. > > I am still undecided on DN personally, but I do appreciate the > > consistency of policy, or at least policy that is in line with other > > regions requirements. > I used to work as Hostmaster/IPRA at the RIPE NCC. I was the one > applying the demonstrated need to each request received from members. > While I agree that it used to be a very useful part of policy, since > depletion of the free pool has hit most of the regions, I think that DN > is no longer useful. It will be the company that needs them most or the > company with most money that will get the resources, one way or another, > > regardless of the DN. > > In addition, DN is not a very fair concept. It relies on all the members > > (on one side) understanding every letter of the policy and all the RIR > staff (on the other side) applying exactly the same procedures > consistently. There will always exist differences of opinion between two > > people during the evaluation of the same request, no matter how > consistent a registration department tries to be. Even the same person > will look at a request with different eyes based on its mood at the time > > of the evaluation. > > > > I think the policy shouldn't 'remove' DN for all regions, but make it > > compatible with the reasons... a dynamic policy as such.. > > > > Something like 'if the region the resource is being transferred from > > required a DN, then the same DN requirements will exist in the APNIC > > region for inter-RIR transfers from that region'. > That is basically the same idea behind the RIPE policy proposal 2014-05 > and the same idea behind the policy proposal which I wanted to make to > the APNIC community. > > > > I'd also like to see the inter-RIR transfer rules tightened so that if > > a region allows in-bound, but not out-bound, then the APNIC region > > would not allow outbound to that region. > Well, that would be difficult to put in words, but let's talk about it. > I am in favor of removing all limitations and not adding further ones. > > > > There are also some considerations regarding different policies of > > NIR's as well... this would need to be addressed in the policy. > Here is where you may be very useful :-) I do not have extended > knowledge of the NIRs policies regarding transfers. I have been talking > to some representatives of NIRs when I was in Xi'An at APNIC36 but my > current knowledge is limited. > > cheers, > Elvis > (a very young member of this community) > > -- Hi > -- I am certainly in favor of elimination of needs on a global basis, as > -- is anyone who is transacting -- buyers, sellers, and those who assist > them. > -- I would prefer to wait until RIPE Policy 2014-05 is implemented, > -- before I become involved in any other proposal authorship. > -- APNIC and ARIN already have inter-RIR transfers and that is what I > -- have addressed in RIPE Region. I believe you are looking for needs > elimination, > -- which is a different kettle of fish than the policy I have written. > Perhaps in the future > -- there will be time for me to focus on needs elimination, but not at > present. > -- Thank you for your support of 2014-05 in RIPE region. > -- > -- Sandra Brown > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > apnic-talk mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk > > > End of apnic-talk Digest, Vol 122, Issue 6 > ****************************************** > _______________________________________________ > apnic-talk mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apnic-talk >
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