Please arrange a session this week to review and analyze where we are in terms of this effort.
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 8:15 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe <[email protected]> wrote: > Lets invest some time using some tools to learn what slick means to start > with. > > > On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[email protected]>wrote: > >> I agree with Samisa - u need to look carefully at what "slick" means. >> >> Auto source -> visual mapping in an optimal way is an impossible problem >> to solve. If the visual tool is fantastic, a LOT of users will only use >> that and never look at source. So what you need to do is have a source -> >> visual mapping but MUCH MORE importantly, have a way to serialize a hand >> positioned beautiful layout so it comes back the same way. That is easy - >> either augment the file with machine processable comments or have a side >> file and use checksums or something to make sure its still good. >> >> The best visual editor I've used is one I used in 1990 or so - and its >> still FANTASTIC. Go see National Instruments LabView. Yes it was an >> *amazing* visual editor even back in 1990. These are the same guys who >> built the visual composer for Lego Mindstorms. >> >> This problem can be solved. We've not even scratched the surface yet. >> Stop talking about x/y restriction and look at what ways to do it properly >> .. those are simple little things. The main problem is not restricting user >> activity - but simply being dumb and forgetting the user activity! Second >> is getting the finish right - the arrow changing direction is one of many >> examples. >> >> Sanjiva. >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 5:19 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 8:11 PM, Viraj Rajaguru <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I think one of the main reasons for loosing the slickness of ESB >>>> graphical editor is we haven't restricted the user activities >>>> appropriately. While comparing with other graphical tools, ESB graphical >>>> editor is giving unnecessary freedom to user to design his diagrams. >>>> >>>> For an example if user is implementing inSequence of the proxy service, >>>> editor should not give user to move the elements along the 'Y' axis. >>>> Otherwise user will endup with an inSequence which has set of mediators >>>> with different Y values (coordinates) which gives a non professional look. >>>> >>> >>> But is that the biggest problem? Please re-read Sanjiva's original mail. >>> What about the direction of the arrows? That has nothing to do with Y axis, >>> does it? >>> >>> Also, if you restrict Y axis, how a user is supposed to drag a mediator >>> from in-flow to out and vise-verse? are we getting rid of that use case? >>> >>> And, in my experiance, when the screen real state is small, you need the >>> Y axis capability, when you have several mediators, as they cannot fit all >>> into one screen on one flow. Will that not be problematic? >>> >>>> >>>> And also with this unnecessary freedom, distances between elements >>>> (interms of X, Y coordinates) in the diagram are different, and indirectly >>>> leads to a messed diagram. >>>> >>>> For an immediate solution we can try to restrict user activities to >>>> some extend and check the improvements in slickness aspects with these >>>> restrictions. >>>> >>>> And also we will compare ESB graphical editor with other graphical >>>> editors and will prepare a list of reasons why ESB graphical editor has >>>> been deviated from other smooth graphical editors. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Viraj. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:49 PM, Samisa Abeysinghe <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> This popped up in the other thread on stability. >>>>> >>>>> What we need to do is to come up with a list of things that we can do >>>>> to immediately address some of the known issues that are simple to fix. >>>>> >>>>> Tooling team, can you have a look and respond to this thread ASAP? >>>>> >>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>> From: Samisa Abeysinghe <[email protected]> >>>>> Date: Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 5:29 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Architecture] Stabilizing ESB Graphical Editor >>>>> To: architecture <[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Sanjiva Weerawarana <[email protected] >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Samisa beyond bugs there's simple "it doesn't look professional" >>>>>> stuff. For example the arrow heads turn the wrong way when the line's >>>>>> close >>>>>> etc.. We need to simple do MUCH better in the visual feel of the thing. >>>>>> It >>>>>> does not have the "slick" feel of a picture you see on creately.comright >>>>>> now and we need that. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes I agree. The "does not look professional" are bugs too, and they >>>>> affect usability. >>>>> >>>>> So there are two problems. The bugs that Kasun and the rest of the >>>>> team are reporting are absolute blockers, as they prevent the tool being >>>>> used in a practical use case. Since we want this tool to be used for all >>>>> use cases, we will go ahead and fix those edge cases anyway. >>>>> >>>>> And at the same time, we will make a separate effort on the >>>>> professional aspect. Even in the hackathon, we can pay attention to these >>>>> stuff. >>>>> But they need a different eye, to capture, than the bugs. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Can the tooling team come fix those up themselves? All it takes is to >>>>>> look at others (including Mule Studio) and ask yourselves honestly >>>>>> whether >>>>>> its in the same league for visual slickness. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yes this is possible. We will look into this. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The issues of whether the modeling is useful and working is another >>>>>> aspect - and that certainly requires ESB team help. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sanjiva. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 6:19 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe >>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> What are the dates for the hackathon? And who will participate form >>>>>>> DevS side and who from ESB side? Who else? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 4:28 AM, Jasintha Dasanayake < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> +1 for the hackathon >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> /Jasintha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 2:20 AM, Viraj Rajaguru <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Samisa Abeysinghe < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Now, if we already know the issues, may be it would be a good >>>>>>>>>> idea to do a hackathon with ESB + DesvS teams so that we can fix the >>>>>>>>>> pressing issues fast track and do a patch release sooner. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Then, we can visit these use cases. >>>>>>>>>> Shall we try 2 days of Hakacthon? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> +1 for the hackathon with ESB + DevS teams. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Viraj. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Viraj Rajaguru >>>>>>>>> Software Engineer >>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc. : http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Mobile: +94 77 3683068 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> *Jasintha Dasanayake >>>>>>>> ** >>>>>>>> Software Engineer >>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc. | http://wso2.com >>>>>>>> lean . enterprise . middleware >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>> *mobile :- 077 291 6596* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Samisa... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe >>>>>>> VP Engineering >>>>>>> WSO2 Inc. >>>>>>> http://wso2.com >>>>>>> http://wso2.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. >>>>>> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com/ >>>>>> email: [email protected]; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 >>>>>> 6880 | +1 650 265 8311 >>>>>> blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Samisa... >>>>> >>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe >>>>> VP Engineering >>>>> WSO2 Inc. >>>>> http://wso2.com >>>>> http://wso2.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Samisa... >>>>> >>>>> Samisa Abeysinghe >>>>> VP Engineering >>>>> WSO2 Inc. >>>>> http://wso2.com >>>>> http://wso2.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Viraj Rajaguru >>>> Software Engineer >>>> WSO2 Inc. : http://wso2.com >>>> >>>> Mobile: +94 77 3683068 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Samisa... >>> >>> Samisa Abeysinghe >>> VP Engineering >>> WSO2 Inc. >>> http://wso2.com >>> http://wso2.org >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sanjiva Weerawarana, Ph.D. >> Founder, Chairman & CEO; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com/ >> email: [email protected]; phone: +94 11 763 9614; cell: +94 77 787 6880 | >> +1 650 265 8311 >> blog: http://sanjiva.weerawarana.org/ >> >> Lean . Enterprise . Middleware >> > > > > -- > > Thanks, > Samisa... > > Samisa Abeysinghe > VP Engineering > WSO2 Inc. > http://wso2.com > http://wso2.org > -- Thanks, Samisa... Samisa Abeysinghe VP Engineering WSO2 Inc. http://wso2.com http://wso2.org
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