+1 I love to use YAML because of its simplicity, although I hate to give up schema validation that XSD brings to the table. But (as far as I know) you can't have both.
Best regards, Frank 2015-11-26 7:14 GMT+01:00 Srinath Perera <[email protected]>: > Hi Azeez, > > Way I see it we should eventually move everything. IMO, Text based config > files are much easier to deal with than XML. > > However, at the same time we should try to keep the advantages from > previous solutions ( like detecting errors). > > --Srinath > > On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Ramith Jayasinghe <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> " The Java developers will continue to work with those configurations." >> -im not clear on this. does that mean configurations file such has >> identity.xml , apimanager.xml will continue to exist? or there will be a >> yaml version of it too? >> >> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I think you are still thinking like a typical Java developer who is >>> happy to write web.xml and other XML files. We are not going to change that >>> experience. The Java developers will continue to work with those >>> configurations. However, the YAML experience is for people who run the >>> systems in production. They are not developers. They typically hate XML >>> config because it is too verbose and makes life difficult when they are >>> working with editors such as vi. They are very happy with simple text based >>> configurations. Also there scripting languages that rely on indentation. So >>> we need to start thinking beyond a typical Java development experience. >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Ramith Jayasinghe <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> My point is that, wouldn't that mess up the user-experience to a new >>>> level!. Do we have an idea on how comfortable the average user is with YAML >>>> ( - when they are suppose to configure fairly complicated configurations). >>>> Yes we can validate (- in fact we need to when we can regardless >>>> weather its xml or yaml being used) then the user experience would be >>>> 'server didn't start up because I couldn't indent a space correctly - to me >>>> that's bad user experience). >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Srinath Perera <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi All, >>>>> >>>>> I also think that if we use YAML, we should do some work to validate >>>>> the configurations and complain. That will fix the case of single space >>>>> mess up everything. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Srinath >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Harsha Thirimanna <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Azeez, >>>>>> Since we are normally writing XSD for each xml config files and then >>>>>> we could validate it against when the relevant bundle getting activated. >>>>>> As >>>>>> in my understand, this is valid case for each product. >>>>>> Are there any way to do this with YAML, JSON or do we have any other >>>>>> aspect like doing well document about the config files and its values ? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Harsha Thirimanna* >>>>>> Senior Software Engineer; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 71 5186770 * >>>>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/ <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez>* >>>>>> *harshathirimannlinked-in: **http: >>>>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>**//www.linkedin.com/pub/harsha-thirimanna/10/ab8/122 >>>>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/harsha-thirimanna/10/ab8/122>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Maninda Edirisooriya < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> From this major release we can think about managing configurations >>>>>>> from a single component. At the moment when someone wants to add a >>>>>>> config >>>>>>> file it is just added and reading these configs are done with a >>>>>>> boilerplate >>>>>>> code. Some issues we get are due to unavailability of config files and >>>>>>> config contents in them. If we can add a component that reads >>>>>>> configurations in the conf directory and validate at the server startup >>>>>>> most of these issues will not be coming. I think it is okay to keed >>>>>>> different formats like YAML, XML, and JSON as configs but we should >>>>>>> validate them in a dedicated component at server startup. Each component >>>>>>> that adds config fies should implement the validation interface exposed >>>>>>> by >>>>>>> that component and that componet can provide utility classes to support >>>>>>> parsing each format easily from the implented classes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The product/component configs have to be rethought as part of >>>>>>>> rewriting them or improving them. The target audience of product config >>>>>>>> files as devops or admin folks. That community prefers simple text >>>>>>>> formats, >>>>>>>> and given an alternative to XML, they will take it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Ramith Jayasinghe <[email protected] >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm not against Yaml or jason. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> @Sagara, >>>>>>>>> your point also holds for XML ( we don't need to educate people >>>>>>>>> on how to use XML). In my view it boils down to number of configs we >>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>> have in a file + how many level of configs there are. therefore, >>>>>>>>> @Azeez, >>>>>>>>> Point I'm making is there needs to be an effort to >>>>>>>>> try-out/model configurations we have in products (- realistically, >>>>>>>>> most of >>>>>>>>> the functionality of products likely to remain same, configurations >>>>>>>>> required also like to remain same, or am I wrong here? e.g. there >>>>>>>>> will be >>>>>>>>> an API Manager product and that needs certain configurations based on >>>>>>>>> its >>>>>>>>> functionality) in Yaml and figure out if the adoption leads to >>>>>>>>> better user >>>>>>>>> experience ( specially with nested configurations we have). if we >>>>>>>>> agree >>>>>>>>> that it indeed leads to better configuration management then its cool >>>>>>>>> isn't >>>>>>>>> it? thoughts? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> regards >>>>>>>>> Ramith >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Sagara Gunathunga < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yes, we have just been to KubeCon. Everybody is using YAML. >>>>>>>>>>> Also, while looking at new libraries during research on MSS related >>>>>>>>>>> stuff, >>>>>>>>>>> all frameworks are using YAML now. Easy, minimal, lightweight >>>>>>>>>>> config is >>>>>>>>>>> where the world is today & XML is not the way to go. On a related >>>>>>>>>>> note, >>>>>>>>>>> minimal config or even better, zero config is what most people are >>>>>>>>>>> moving >>>>>>>>>>> towards. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is a point I brought during my MS F/W comparison, everybody >>>>>>>>>> moved or moving to YAML today. IMO for new products such as MSS, GW >>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>> should use YAML/JSON from the beginning. Other advantage of YAML is >>>>>>>>>> we >>>>>>>>>> don't need people to educate how to configure, use etc because >>>>>>>>>> people are >>>>>>>>>> already use YAML for everyday works. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks ! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Samisa Abeysinghe < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Ramith Jayasinghe < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> are we going to take into account the whole migration effort ( >>>>>>>>>>>>> for existing users) and the possible learning curve? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There is no migration required. It is a new product major >>>>>>>>>>>> version and new platform version. And we are talking about product >>>>>>>>>>>> configs >>>>>>>>>>>> not artefacts >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we should review what exactly configurations we have >>>>>>>>>>>>> (in each product) and how it will look in Yaml/Json? ( - and such >>>>>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>>>>> conversion would that lead to better user experience or just mess >>>>>>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>>>>>> up?) >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 5:37 AM, Thilina Piyasundara < >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO its better to move out from XML. But Yaml and Json have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> its own disadvantages as well. In yaml you can mess the hole >>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing if you >>>>>>>>>>>>>> miss a single space/tab. In json you can't comment out a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> configuration >>>>>>>>>>>>>> block. Its better to have a UI to configure and save those >>>>>>>>>>>>>> configs in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> yaml or json format specially when we have to deal with lots of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> configuration files. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> By the way, windows systems and python programs use a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> configuration format called ini which is an old way of storing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> configurations using name value pares with sections [1]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. http://www.fcla.edu/z3950/everglades.html >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thilina Piyasundara >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Engineer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: thilina.piyasundara.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/thilinapiyasundara >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WSO2, Inc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://wso2.com/> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lean . enterprise . middleware >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cloud.wso2.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Paul Fremantle < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree. I downloaded the MSS and C5 distros and I found the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> XML configs made them seem a little outdated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 November 2015 at 18:06, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I brought up this idea a few years ago as well and it got >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shot down, and I thought of bringing this back again. More and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more, we are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting to notice that the world is moving or has moved from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> verbose XML >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based configuration to more concise YAML based configuration. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So IMO, from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C5 based products onwards we have to move to YAML based config. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Azeez >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Fremantle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Co-Founder, WSO2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> twitter.com/pzfreo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ramith Jayasinghe >>>>>>>>>>>>> Technical Lead >>>>>>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> lean.enterprise.middleware >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> E: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> P: +94 777542851 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>>>>>>>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * >>>>>>>>>>> *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> >>>>>>>>>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* >>>>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>>>>>> *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>>>>>>>>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Sagara Gunathunga >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Architect; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>>> V.P Apache Web Services; http://ws.apache.org/ >>>>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssagara >>>>>>>>>> Blog ; http://ssagara.blogspot.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Ramith Jayasinghe >>>>>>>>> Technical Lead >>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>> lean.enterprise.middleware >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> E: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> P: +94 777542851 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>>>>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * >>>>>>>> *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> >>>>>>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* >>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>>> *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>>>>>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ============================ >>>>> Srinath Perera, Ph.D. >>>>> http://people.apache.org/~hemapani/ >>>>> http://srinathsview.blogspot.com/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ramith Jayasinghe >>>> Technical Lead >>>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com >>>> lean.enterprise.middleware >>>> >>>> E: [email protected] >>>> P: +94 777542851 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Architecture mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *Afkham Azeez* >>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> >>> * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * >>> *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> >>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* >>> <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>> *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* >>> >>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Architecture mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Ramith Jayasinghe >> Technical Lead >> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com >> lean.enterprise.middleware >> >> E: [email protected] >> P: +94 777542851 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Architecture mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >> >> > > > -- > ============================ > Blog: http://srinathsview.blogspot.com twitter:@srinath_perera > Site: http://people.apache.org/~hemapani/ > Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hemapani/ > Phone: 0772360902 > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture > >
_______________________________________________ Architecture mailing list [email protected] https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture
