My point is that, wouldn't that mess up the user-experience to a new level!. Do we have an idea on how comfortable the average user is with YAML ( - when they are suppose to configure fairly complicated configurations). Yes we can validate (- in fact we need to when we can regardless weather its xml or yaml being used) then the user experience would be 'server didn't start up because I couldn't indent a space correctly - to me that's bad user experience).
On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Srinath Perera <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi All, > > I also think that if we use YAML, we should do some work to validate the > configurations and complain. That will fix the case of single space mess up > everything. > > Thanks > Srinath > > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Harsha Thirimanna <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi Azeez, >> Since we are normally writing XSD for each xml config files and then we >> could validate it against when the relevant bundle getting activated. As in >> my understand, this is valid case for each product. >> Are there any way to do this with YAML, JSON or do we have any other >> aspect like doing well document about the config files and its values ? >> >> >> *Harsha Thirimanna* >> Senior Software Engineer; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 71 5186770 * >> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/ <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez>* >> *harshathirimannlinked-in: **http: >> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>**//www.linkedin.com/pub/harsha-thirimanna/10/ab8/122 >> <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/harsha-thirimanna/10/ab8/122>* >> >> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Maninda Edirisooriya <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> From this major release we can think about managing configurations from >>> a single component. At the moment when someone wants to add a config file >>> it is just added and reading these configs are done with a boilerplate >>> code. Some issues we get are due to unavailability of config files and >>> config contents in them. If we can add a component that reads >>> configurations in the conf directory and validate at the server startup >>> most of these issues will not be coming. I think it is okay to keed >>> different formats like YAML, XML, and JSON as configs but we should >>> validate them in a dedicated component at server startup. Each component >>> that adds config fies should implement the validation interface exposed by >>> that component and that componet can provide utility classes to support >>> parsing each format easily from the implented classes. >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> The product/component configs have to be rethought as part of rewriting >>>> them or improving them. The target audience of product config files as >>>> devops or admin folks. That community prefers simple text formats, and >>>> given an alternative to XML, they will take it. >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Ramith Jayasinghe <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm not against Yaml or jason. >>>>> >>>>> @Sagara, >>>>> your point also holds for XML ( we don't need to educate people on >>>>> how to use XML). In my view it boils down to number of configs we would >>>>> have in a file + how many level of configs there are. therefore, >>>>> @Azeez, >>>>> Point I'm making is there needs to be an effort to >>>>> try-out/model configurations we have in products (- realistically, most >>>>> of >>>>> the functionality of products likely to remain same, configurations >>>>> required also like to remain same, or am I wrong here? e.g. there will be >>>>> an API Manager product and that needs certain configurations based on its >>>>> functionality) in Yaml and figure out if the adoption leads to better >>>>> user >>>>> experience ( specially with nested configurations we have). if we agree >>>>> that it indeed leads to better configuration management then its cool >>>>> isn't >>>>> it? thoughts? >>>>> >>>>> regards >>>>> Ramith >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Sagara Gunathunga <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, we have just been to KubeCon. Everybody is using YAML. Also, >>>>>>> while looking at new libraries during research on MSS related stuff, all >>>>>>> frameworks are using YAML now. Easy, minimal, lightweight config is >>>>>>> where >>>>>>> the world is today & XML is not the way to go. On a related note, >>>>>>> minimal >>>>>>> config or even better, zero config is what most people are moving >>>>>>> towards. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This is a point I brought during my MS F/W comparison, everybody >>>>>> moved or moving to YAML today. IMO for new products such as MSS, GW we >>>>>> should use YAML/JSON from the beginning. Other advantage of YAML is we >>>>>> don't need people to educate how to configure, use etc because people are >>>>>> already use YAML for everyday works. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks ! >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Samisa Abeysinghe <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Ramith Jayasinghe <[email protected] >>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> are we going to take into account the whole migration effort ( for >>>>>>>>> existing users) and the possible learning curve? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There is no migration required. It is a new product major version >>>>>>>> and new platform version. And we are talking about product configs not >>>>>>>> artefacts >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think we should review what exactly configurations we have (in >>>>>>>>> each product) and how it will look in Yaml/Json? ( - and such a >>>>>>>>> conversion >>>>>>>>> would that lead to better user experience or just mess things up?) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 5:37 AM, Thilina Piyasundara < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> IMO its better to move out from XML. But Yaml and Json have its >>>>>>>>>> own disadvantages as well. In yaml you can mess the hole thing if >>>>>>>>>> you miss >>>>>>>>>> a single space/tab. In json you can't comment out a configuration >>>>>>>>>> block. >>>>>>>>>> Its better to have a UI to configure and save those configs in a >>>>>>>>>> yaml or >>>>>>>>>> json format specially when we have to deal with lots of configuration >>>>>>>>>> files. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> By the way, windows systems and python programs use a >>>>>>>>>> configuration format called ini which is an old way of storing >>>>>>>>>> configurations using name value pares with sections [1]. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 1. http://www.fcla.edu/z3950/everglades.html >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thilina Piyasundara >>>>>>>>>> Systems Engineer >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Blog: thilina.piyasundara.org >>>>>>>>>> Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/thilinapiyasundara >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> WSO2, Inc. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> <http://wso2.com/> >>>>>>>>>> lean . enterprise . middleware >>>>>>>>>> https://cloud.wso2.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Paul Fremantle <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I agree. I downloaded the MSS and C5 distros and I found the XML >>>>>>>>>>> configs made them seem a little outdated. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10 November 2015 at 18:06, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I brought up this idea a few years ago as well and it got shot >>>>>>>>>>>> down, and I thought of bringing this back again. More and more, we >>>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> starting to notice that the world is moving or has moved from >>>>>>>>>>>> verbose XML >>>>>>>>>>>> based configuration to more concise YAML based configuration. So >>>>>>>>>>>> IMO, from >>>>>>>>>>>> C5 based products onwards we have to move to YAML based config. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>> Azeez >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>>>>>>>>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * >>>>>>>>>>>> *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> >>>>>>>>>>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>>>>>>> *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Paul Fremantle >>>>>>>>>>> Co-Founder, WSO2 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org >>>>>>>>>>> twitter.com/pzfreo >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Ramith Jayasinghe >>>>>>>>> Technical Lead >>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>> lean.enterprise.middleware >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> E: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> P: +94 777542851 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>>>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> >>>>>>> * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * >>>>>>> *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> >>>>>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* >>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>> *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>>>>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sagara Gunathunga >>>>>> >>>>>> Architect; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>> V.P Apache Web Services; http://ws.apache.org/ >>>>>> Linkedin; http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssagara >>>>>> Blog ; http://ssagara.blogspot.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ramith Jayasinghe >>>>> Technical Lead >>>>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com >>>>> lean.enterprise.middleware >>>>> >>>>> E: [email protected] >>>>> P: +94 777542851 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> >>>> * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * >>>> *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> >>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* >>>> <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>> *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* >>>> >>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Architecture mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Architecture mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Architecture mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >> >> > > > -- > ============================ > Srinath Perera, Ph.D. > http://people.apache.org/~hemapani/ > http://srinathsview.blogspot.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture > > -- Ramith Jayasinghe Technical Lead WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com lean.enterprise.middleware E: [email protected] P: +94 777542851
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