" The Java developers will continue to work with those configurations." -im not clear on this. does that mean configurations file such has identity.xml , apimanager.xml will continue to exist? or there will be a yaml version of it too?
On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: > I think you are still thinking like a typical Java developer who is happy > to write web.xml and other XML files. We are not going to change that > experience. The Java developers will continue to work with those > configurations. However, the YAML experience is for people who run the > systems in production. They are not developers. They typically hate XML > config because it is too verbose and makes life difficult when they are > working with editors such as vi. They are very happy with simple text based > configurations. Also there scripting languages that rely on indentation. So > we need to start thinking beyond a typical Java development experience. > > On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 11:00 AM, Ramith Jayasinghe <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> My point is that, wouldn't that mess up the user-experience to a new >> level!. Do we have an idea on how comfortable the average user is with YAML >> ( - when they are suppose to configure fairly complicated configurations). >> Yes we can validate (- in fact we need to when we can regardless weather >> its xml or yaml being used) then the user experience would be 'server >> didn't start up because I couldn't indent a space correctly - to me that's >> bad user experience). >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Srinath Perera <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I also think that if we use YAML, we should do some work to validate the >>> configurations and complain. That will fix the case of single space mess up >>> everything. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Srinath >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:18 PM, Harsha Thirimanna <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Azeez, >>>> Since we are normally writing XSD for each xml config files and then we >>>> could validate it against when the relevant bundle getting activated. As in >>>> my understand, this is valid case for each product. >>>> Are there any way to do this with YAML, JSON or do we have any other >>>> aspect like doing well document about the config files and its values ? >>>> >>>> >>>> *Harsha Thirimanna* >>>> Senior Software Engineer; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]>* cell: +94 71 5186770 * >>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/ <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez>* >>>> *harshathirimannlinked-in: **http: >>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>**//www.linkedin.com/pub/harsha-thirimanna/10/ab8/122 >>>> <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/harsha-thirimanna/10/ab8/122>* >>>> >>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Maninda Edirisooriya <[email protected] >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> From this major release we can think about managing configurations >>>>> from a single component. At the moment when someone wants to add a config >>>>> file it is just added and reading these configs are done with a >>>>> boilerplate >>>>> code. Some issues we get are due to unavailability of config files and >>>>> config contents in them. If we can add a component that reads >>>>> configurations in the conf directory and validate at the server startup >>>>> most of these issues will not be coming. I think it is okay to keed >>>>> different formats like YAML, XML, and JSON as configs but we should >>>>> validate them in a dedicated component at server startup. Each component >>>>> that adds config fies should implement the validation interface exposed by >>>>> that component and that componet can provide utility classes to support >>>>> parsing each format easily from the implented classes. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> The product/component configs have to be rethought as part of >>>>>> rewriting them or improving them. The target audience of product config >>>>>> files as devops or admin folks. That community prefers simple text >>>>>> formats, >>>>>> and given an alternative to XML, they will take it. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Ramith Jayasinghe <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not against Yaml or jason. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> @Sagara, >>>>>>> your point also holds for XML ( we don't need to educate people on >>>>>>> how to use XML). In my view it boils down to number of configs we would >>>>>>> have in a file + how many level of configs there are. therefore, >>>>>>> @Azeez, >>>>>>> Point I'm making is there needs to be an effort to >>>>>>> try-out/model configurations we have in products (- realistically, >>>>>>> most of >>>>>>> the functionality of products likely to remain same, configurations >>>>>>> required also like to remain same, or am I wrong here? e.g. there will >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> an API Manager product and that needs certain configurations based on >>>>>>> its >>>>>>> functionality) in Yaml and figure out if the adoption leads to better >>>>>>> user >>>>>>> experience ( specially with nested configurations we have). if we agree >>>>>>> that it indeed leads to better configuration management then its cool >>>>>>> isn't >>>>>>> it? thoughts? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> regards >>>>>>> Ramith >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Sagara Gunathunga <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:56 AM, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes, we have just been to KubeCon. Everybody is using YAML. Also, >>>>>>>>> while looking at new libraries during research on MSS related stuff, >>>>>>>>> all >>>>>>>>> frameworks are using YAML now. Easy, minimal, lightweight config is >>>>>>>>> where >>>>>>>>> the world is today & XML is not the way to go. On a related note, >>>>>>>>> minimal >>>>>>>>> config or even better, zero config is what most people are moving >>>>>>>>> towards. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is a point I brought during my MS F/W comparison, everybody >>>>>>>> moved or moving to YAML today. IMO for new products such as MSS, GW we >>>>>>>> should use YAML/JSON from the beginning. Other advantage of YAML is we >>>>>>>> don't need people to educate how to configure, use etc because people >>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>> already use YAML for everyday works. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks ! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 7:18 PM, Samisa Abeysinghe < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Ramith Jayasinghe < >>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> are we going to take into account the whole migration effort ( >>>>>>>>>>> for existing users) and the possible learning curve? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There is no migration required. It is a new product major >>>>>>>>>> version and new platform version. And we are talking about product >>>>>>>>>> configs >>>>>>>>>> not artefacts >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think we should review what exactly configurations we have (in >>>>>>>>>>> each product) and how it will look in Yaml/Json? ( - and such a >>>>>>>>>>> conversion >>>>>>>>>>> would that lead to better user experience or just mess things up?) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 5:37 AM, Thilina Piyasundara < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> IMO its better to move out from XML. But Yaml and Json have its >>>>>>>>>>>> own disadvantages as well. In yaml you can mess the hole thing if >>>>>>>>>>>> you miss >>>>>>>>>>>> a single space/tab. In json you can't comment out a configuration >>>>>>>>>>>> block. >>>>>>>>>>>> Its better to have a UI to configure and save those configs in a >>>>>>>>>>>> yaml or >>>>>>>>>>>> json format specially when we have to deal with lots of >>>>>>>>>>>> configuration >>>>>>>>>>>> files. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> By the way, windows systems and python programs use a >>>>>>>>>>>> configuration format called ini which is an old way of storing >>>>>>>>>>>> configurations using name value pares with sections [1]. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. http://www.fcla.edu/z3950/everglades.html >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks and regards, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Thilina Piyasundara >>>>>>>>>>>> Systems Engineer >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: thilina.piyasundara.org >>>>>>>>>>>> Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/thilinapiyasundara >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> WSO2, Inc. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://wso2.com/> >>>>>>>>>>>> lean . enterprise . middleware >>>>>>>>>>>> https://cloud.wso2.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Paul Fremantle <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree. I downloaded the MSS and C5 distros and I found the >>>>>>>>>>>>> XML configs made them seem a little outdated. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 November 2015 at 18:06, Afkham Azeez <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I brought up this idea a few years ago as well and it got >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shot down, and I thought of bringing this back again. More and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> more, we are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> starting to notice that the world is moving or has moved from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> verbose XML >>>>>>>>>>>>>> based configuration to more concise YAML based configuration. So >>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMO, from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> C5 based products onwards we have to move to YAML based config. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Azeez >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Paul Fremantle >>>>>>>>>>>>> Co-Founder, WSO2 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> twitter.com/pzfreo >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Ramith Jayasinghe >>>>>>>>>>> Technical Lead >>>>>>>>>>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>>>> lean.enterprise.middleware >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> E: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> P: +94 777542851 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>>>>>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * >>>>>>>>> *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> >>>>>>>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* >>>>>>>>> <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>>>>> *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>>>>>>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Sagara Gunathunga >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Architect; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>>>> V.P Apache Web Services; http://ws.apache.org/ >>>>>>>> Linkedin; http://www.linkedin.com/in/ssagara >>>>>>>> Blog ; http://ssagara.blogspot.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Ramith Jayasinghe >>>>>>> Technical Lead >>>>>>> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com >>>>>>> lean.enterprise.middleware >>>>>>> >>>>>>> E: [email protected] >>>>>>> P: +94 777542851 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> *Afkham Azeez* >>>>>> Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com >>>>>> Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ >>>>>> * <http://www.apache.org/>* >>>>>> *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> >>>>>> * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * >>>>>> *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> >>>>>> *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* >>>>>> <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> >>>>>> *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez >>>>>> <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* >>>>>> >>>>>> *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Architecture mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Architecture mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ============================ >>> Srinath Perera, Ph.D. >>> http://people.apache.org/~hemapani/ >>> http://srinathsview.blogspot.com/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Architecture mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Ramith Jayasinghe >> Technical Lead >> WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com >> lean.enterprise.middleware >> >> E: [email protected] >> P: +94 777542851 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Architecture mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture >> >> > > > -- > *Afkham Azeez* > Director of Architecture; WSO2, Inc.; http://wso2.com > Member; Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org/ > * <http://www.apache.org/>* > *email: **[email protected]* <[email protected]> > * cell: +94 77 3320919 <%2B94%2077%203320919>blog: * > *http://blog.afkham.org* <http://blog.afkham.org> > *twitter: **http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez* > <http://twitter.com/afkham_azeez> > *linked-in: **http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez > <http://lk.linkedin.com/in/afkhamazeez>* > > *Lean . Enterprise . Middleware* > > _______________________________________________ > Architecture mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.wso2.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/architecture > > -- Ramith Jayasinghe Technical Lead WSO2 Inc., http://wso2.com lean.enterprise.middleware E: [email protected] P: +94 777542851
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