FWIW, Scott, your interpretation agrees with my recollection and my intents 
along the way.

I am not convinced that such a policy applied to the transfer market is a good 
idea. I believe that portable blocks place sufficient demand on internet 
resources that having a some number of hosts behind them (50%+) is not an 
unreasonable requirement regardless of whether the block is freshly minted from 
the RIR or recycled.

Owen

> On Nov 20, 2014, at 9:42 AM, Scott Leibrand <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Steve,
> 
> I think your interpretation of 4.3.2.2 is incorrect.  That policy section was 
> not the one that authorized the receipt of a (PA) /24 for multihoming.  That 
> was, and still is, 4.2.3.6 <http://4.2.3.6/>:
> https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four236 
> <https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#four236>, which states that "The ISP 
> will then verify the customer's multihoming requirement and may assign the 
> customer a /24, based on this policy."
> 
> 4.3.2.2 states that the minimum allocation size (from ARIN) for multihomed 
> end users was a /24.  However, that did not allow you to get a /24 from ARIN 
> just by becoming multihomed. If you were/are in that situation, you always 
> had to (and still have to) get your /24 from your upstream if you don't meet 
> ARIN's /24 utilizatinon criteria, and demonstrate efficient utilization 
> before getting one from ARIN.
> 
> If my understanding does not match how policy was implemented by staff prior 
> to implementation of ARIN-2014-13 on 17 September 2014, someone please 
> correct me, but that was the intent of the policy as I understand it.
> 
> When discussing 2014-13, my sense of the community was that we did not want 
> to authorize receipt of a /24 from ARIN solely based on multihoming, because 
> that could possibly open up a land rush of organizations spun up solely for 
> the purpose of getting a /24 from the free pool, holding it for the requisite 
> time, and then selling it on the transfer market.  I personally would be more 
> amenable to considering a policy change to liberalize the requirements for 
> getting a /24 if/when they're available from the transfer market only.
> 
> -Scott
> 
> On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Steve King <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> Multi-homing was not a requirement.   It was an alternate justification.  I 
> can’t honestly meet the 50% utilization requirement for a /24, but under the 
> pre-September rules I qualified for a /24 under 4.3.2.2 because I contract 
> with multiple carriers and want to participate in BGP for failover.
> 
>  
> 
> Now that the language in 4.3.2.2 is gone, my reading is I have to either:
> 
>  
> 
> a)      Lie about my utilization.  Not willing to do that.
> 
> b)      Beg for a BGP-transferrable block from a carrier, and even then, deal 
> with the fact that other ISPs are far more likely to aggregate and filter 
> specific routes to large carrier-assigned blocks.  I end up with a less 
> reliable failover solution.
> 
>  
> 
> The policy revision is a significant step backward for me.  Maybe I’m enough 
> of an edge case to not matter.  But ARIN-2014-13 stated 4.3.2.2 was redundant 
> given the lowered minimum allocation in 4.3.2.1.  It was not redundant.  It 
> covered a case that I think matters.
> 
>  
> 
> The worst part is, I’m probably going to end up with two non-BGP 
> transferrable /24s from two carriers (we all know they hand them out like 
> candy with big circuits), so I’ll end up burning more IPV4 space than I 
> otherwise would.
> 
>  
> 
>                                                                               
>                                                                               
>                  
> 
>  
> 
> Steve King
> 
> ICON Aircraft
> 
>  
> 
> From: John Von Stein [mailto:[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:18 PM
> To: Richard J. Letts; Steve King; [email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Multi-homing justification removed?
> 
>  
> 
> Speaking from recent / current experience, the multi-homing requirement is a 
> bit of a challenge for tweener-sized organizations like QxC.  We are too big 
> for underlying fiber carriers to comfortably continue to supply our need for 
> IP addresses but not in the position to carry the financial, technical or 
> operational challenges of multi-homing.  This was a very significant cost 
> commitment for QxC and I can imagine this is not achievable for other 
> like-sized ISPs.  Granted, we are better off for it now but had I known how 
> much of a financial and technical hurdle this really was then I probably 
> would not have done it.  I just needed more IP addresses to continue to grow 
> my biz and would have much rather spent the money and manpower on 
> marketing/sales/customer acquisition.  Multi-homing is a nice-to-have luxury 
> that none of my customers are willing to pay for so it is simply a cost of 
> entry to get the IP addresses we need to continue to grow our customer base. 
> 
>  
> 
> As such, I support dropping multi-homing as a prerequisite for an IP 
> allocation. 
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> John W. Von Stein
> 
> CEO
> 
>  
> 
> <image001.jpg>
> 
>  
> 
> 102 NE 2nd Street
> 
> Suite 136
> 
> Boca Raton, FL 33432
> 
> Office: 561-288-6989 <tel:561-288-6989>
> www.QxCcommunications.com <http://www.qxccommunications.com/>
>  
> 
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended 
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> 
>  
> 
> From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 
> [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] On 
> Behalf Of Richard J. Letts
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 1:24 PM
> To: Steve King; [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Multi-homing justification removed?
> 
>  
> 
> I believe the intent was there.
> 
>  
> 
> orgs that have a justifiable/provable need for a /24 were been restricted by 
> their current/lone provider being unwilling to give them enough address 
> space. Not everyone has the ability to change providers, and if you can’t 
> change providers then you certainly would not be able to multihome..
> 
>  
> 
> Richard Letts
> 
>  
> 
> From: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 
> [mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>] On 
> Behalf Of Steve King
> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 9:47 AM
> To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
> Subject: [arin-ppml] Multi-homing justification removed?
> 
>  
> 
> The changes implemented in ARIN-2014-13, specifically the removal of 4.3.2.2, 
> appear to have removed the multi-homing justification for a /24 for end 
> users.  Previously, the need to multi-home, and proof of contracts with 
> multiple upstream providers, was sufficient to justify a /24 to participate 
> in BGP.
> 
>  
> 
> For reassignments from ISPs, the language remains in 4.2.3.6.  Users can 
> justify a /24 via a requirement to multi-home rather than utilization rate.  
> However this revision appears to leave utilization rate as the only criterion 
> for direct end-user assignments.
> 
>  
> 
> Was this the intent or possibly an overlooked side effect of the change?
> 
>  
> 
>                                                                               
>                                                                               
>                  
> 
>  
> 
> Steve King
> 
> ICON Aircraft
> 
>  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml 
> <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml>
> Please contact [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> if you experience any 
> issues.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.

_______________________________________________
PPML
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.

Reply via email to