David, I don’t see the angry phone call as the problem. I see it as a symptom.
The problem is the incorrect registrations. I want us to find out about those incorrect registrations and resolve them. I certainly don’t want to simply remove the symptom (angry phone call) by masking the problem (incorrect registration). Owen > On Apr 13, 2015, at 1:23 PM, David Huberman <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hi Ted, > > Thanks for the reply. > > By "indirect resource registration records", I meant reassignment records. > ISP has a /17. They reassign a /28 to a customer, and decide to put customer > POC information on it. That POC only exists because of the /28 - it isn't a > POC for any directly registered allocation, assignment, or AS number. These > are the POCs who are complaining en masse to ARIN after receiving POC > Validation communications. My reasoning for removing POC validation for > these types of POCs is that ISPs have the option to not register POCs at all > -- they can choose "REASSIGN SIMPLE" as a path for registering SWIP > information, and that doesn't have any POC info. Secondly, I'm not convinced > there's a significant value in up-to-date POC information for reassigned > numbers. In the end, the ISP (the direct registrant) is the party > responsible for the IP addresses and use. (And in 90%+ of cases, the ISP is > responsible for routing in the DFZ, too. For the cases where a reassigned > block is announced by th > e customer, there's a customer ASN easily found in the routing tables, and > that contact information is more germane than a SWIP record.) > > I hope that's clearer. > > David > > David R Huberman > Principal, Global IP Addressing > Microsoft Corporation > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On >> Behalf Of Ted Mittelstaedt >> Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 12:12 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy idea: POC Validation >> >> >> As one of the initiators of this policy I must state that none of us who >> worked >> on this ever assumed the POC Validation Policy would be the END of the >> process. >> >> The idea was that when a POC was marked invalid, that ARIN would institute >> an investigation into the number resources held by the invalid POC and if >> they did locate the actual holder, they would give that holder 30 days to >> supply valid POC contact info for whois that would replace the bogus invalid >> contact info. >> >> If the holder wasn't forthcoming, ARIN will delete the POC. Resources that >> have no POC's justifying their existence are then freed up for reassignment. >> >> If ARIN is not doing this, then it is completely understandable that you >> would >> be getting large numbers of phone calls from people annoyed that their >> email addresses are still in whois. >> >> So, ARIN can start doing this and thereby make the people happy who are >> complaining, and at the same time, freeing up resources that are held by >> stale or bogus POC data. >> >> You said "indirect resource registration records" >> >> What exactly is that? >> >> In my opinion, ANY POC that is in whois that is associated in any way with an >> organization or individual who has IP addresses, and is being used as >> justification for holding resources, must remain in the validation list. >> >> It seems quite obvious and apparent that POCs that ARIN has judged to be >> invalid, and is in the process of investigating, would be calling and >> complaining. In general people who are doing things they shouldn't be >> doing, don't like to be investigated would certainly would complain. >> That can be solved easily by deleting their records and thereby freeing up >> resources. Then you don't contact them again and the community gets back >> the IP addressing they have held. >> >> Does not a POC that is being contacted by ARIN have the right to have their >> information deleted? If they are calling in and complaining that their >> records >> are in there, they obviously want them removed. So, ARIN can remove them >> and stop bothering them. >> >> You need to define the difference between "indirect resource registration >> records" and "associated with an active directly registered number resource" >> before anyone can really make a judgement on this policy proposal change. >> >> It just seems very simple to me. If they are a POC they are there because >> their existence is justifying some IP address holding in some way, there is >> some connection. If their POC is no longer justifying an IP address holding >> and there is no connection whatsoever to an IP address holding, then take >> their POC out and doing so will automatically quit contacting them. >> >> Ted >> >> On 4/13/2015 11:11 AM, David Huberman wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> Richard Jimmerson's Policy Experience Report indicated that 50% of the >> phone calls that RSD receives are about POC validation, and that they receive >> many angry emails and calls from POCs who are only associated with indirect >> resource registration records. In response, I offer the following change to >> the >> NRPM : >>> >>> >>> Existing text: >>> >>> 3.6 Annual Whois POC Validation >>> 3.6.1 Method of Annual Verification >>> During ARIN's annual Whois POC validation, an email will be sent to every >> POC in the Whois database. Each POC will have a maximum of 60 days to >> respond with an affirmative that their Whois contact information is correct >> and complete. Unresponsive POC email addresses shall be marked as such in >> the database. If ARIN staff deems a POC to be completely and permanently >> abandoned or otherwise illegitimate, the POC record shall be marked invalid. >> ARIN will maintain, and make readily available to the community, a current >> list of number resources with no valid POC; this data will be subject to the >> current bulk Whois policy. >>> >>> >>> I propose we make the first sentence read: >>> >>> "During ARIN's annual Whois POC validation, an email will be sent to every >> POC in the Whois database that is associated with an active directly >> registered number resource." >>> >>> Thoughts? >>> David >>> >>> David R Huberman >>> Principal, Global IP Addressing >>> Microsoft Corporation >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> PPML >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN >>> Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> _______________________________________________ >> PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN >> Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. > _______________________________________________ > PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
