-----Original Message-----
From: Owen DeLong [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2015 10:09 AM
To: David Huberman
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy idea: POC Validation
Seems to me that the problem in this case is not ARIN, it is the way your
particular service provider works.
Choices include:
1. Work with your service provider to change their process.
2. Change service providers.
What am I missing?
Owen
On Apr 13, 2015, at 1:36 PM, David Huberman
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Owen,
I can give you a great example that's timely. My company ordered some
circuits from ISP X recently. ISP X has a policy that they only do REASSIGN
DETAIL. They registered the reassignments with POC data that points to a
network engineer who ordered the circuit. It's the way their system works.
The engineer emailed me very angry that her information was in ARIN
Whois - and in fact, in Whois many times with multiple iterations of her POC -
- POC1, POC2, POC3, POC4, POC5, etc all with the same information pointing
to her. It even included her direct phone number, which happened to be
her mobile phone, and she was upset about that.
Luckily for her, she knew who ARIN was, she knew who the hostmaster
was in our company (me!), and I knew how to get it fixed.
BTW, in order to get it fixed, I chose to do what I thought was the right
thing: I asked ARIN to "consolidate" the reassignment records into my main
OrgID. ARIN *would not do it* without the explicit written permission of ISP
X. (Luckily for us, ISP X consented.)
Hope that helps,
David
David R Huberman
Principal, Global IP Addressing
Microsoft Corporation
-----Original Message-----
From: Owen DeLong [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 1:30 PM
To: David Huberman
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy idea: POC Validation
David,
I don’t see the angry phone call as the problem. I see it as a symptom.
The problem is the incorrect registrations. I want us to find out
about those incorrect registrations and resolve them. I certainly
don’t want to simply remove the symptom (angry phone call) by masking
the problem (incorrect registration).
Owen
On Apr 13, 2015, at 1:23 PM, David Huberman
<[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Ted,
Thanks for the reply.
By "indirect resource registration records", I meant reassignment
records.
ISP has a /17. They reassign a /28 to a customer, and decide to put
customer POC information on it. That POC only exists because of the /28 -
it isn't a POC
for any directly registered allocation, assignment, or AS number. These
are
the POCs who are complaining en masse to ARIN after receiving POC
Validation communications. My reasoning for removing POC validation
for these types of POCs is that ISPs have the option to not register
POCs at all -- they can choose "REASSIGN SIMPLE" as a path for
registering SWIP information, and that doesn't have any POC info.
Secondly, I'm not convinced there's a significant value in up-to-date
POC information for reassigned numbers. In the end, the ISP (the
direct registrant) is the party responsible for the IP addresses and
use. (And in 90%+ of cases, the ISP is responsible for routing in
the DFZ, too. For the cases where a reassigned block is announced by
th
e customer, there's a customer ASN easily found in the routing
tables, and that contact information is more germane than a SWIP
record.)
I hope that's clearer.
David
David R Huberman
Principal, Global IP Addressing
Microsoft Corporation
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Ted Mittelstaedt
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 12:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Policy idea: POC Validation
As one of the initiators of this policy I must state that none of
us who worked on this ever assumed the POC Validation Policy would
be the END of the process.
The idea was that when a POC was marked invalid, that ARIN would
institute an investigation into the number resources held by the
invalid POC and if they did locate the actual holder, they would
give that holder 30 days to supply valid POC contact info for whois
that would replace the bogus invalid contact info.
If the holder wasn't forthcoming, ARIN will delete the POC.
Resources that have no POC's justifying their existence are then
freed up
for reassignment.
If ARIN is not doing this, then it is completely understandable
that you would be getting large numbers of phone calls from people
annoyed that their email addresses are still in whois.
So, ARIN can start doing this and thereby make the people happy who
are complaining, and at the same time, freeing up resources that
are held by stale or bogus POC data.
You said "indirect resource registration records"
What exactly is that?
In my opinion, ANY POC that is in whois that is associated in any
way with an organization or individual who has IP addresses, and is
being used as justification for holding resources, must remain in
the validation
list.
It seems quite obvious and apparent that POCs that ARIN has judged
to be invalid, and is in the process of investigating, would be
calling and complaining. In general people who are doing things
they shouldn't be doing, don't like to be investigated would
certainly would
complain.
That can be solved easily by deleting their records and thereby
freeing up resources. Then you don't contact them again and the
community gets back the IP addressing they have held.
Does not a POC that is being contacted by ARIN have the right to
have their information deleted? If they are calling in and
complaining that their records are in there, they obviously want them
removed.
So, ARIN can remove them and stop bothering them.
You need to define the difference between "indirect resource
registration records" and "associated with an active directly
registered
number resource"
before anyone can really make a judgement on this policy proposal
change.
It just seems very simple to me. If they are a POC they are there
because their existence is justifying some IP address holding in
some way, there is some connection. If their POC is no longer
justifying an IP address holding and there is no connection
whatsoever to an IP address holding, then take their POC out and
doing so will automatically
quit contacting them.
Ted
On 4/13/2015 11:11 AM, David Huberman wrote:
Hello,
Richard Jimmerson's Policy Experience Report indicated that 50% of
the
phone calls that RSD receives are about POC validation, and that
they receive many angry emails and calls from POCs who are only
associated with indirect resource registration records. In
response, I offer the following change to the NRPM :
Existing text:
3.6 Annual Whois POC Validation
3.6.1 Method of Annual Verification During ARIN's annual Whois POC
validation, an email will be sent to every
POC in the Whois database. Each POC will have a maximum of 60 days
to respond with an affirmative that their Whois contact information
is correct and complete. Unresponsive POC email addresses shall be
marked as such in the database. If ARIN staff deems a POC to be
completely and permanently abandoned or otherwise illegitimate, the
POC record shall be marked invalid.
ARIN will maintain, and make readily available to the community, a
current list of number resources with no valid POC; this data will
be subject to the current bulk Whois policy.
I propose we make the first sentence read:
"During ARIN's annual Whois POC validation, an email will be sent
to every
POC in the Whois database that is associated with an active
directly registered number resource."
Thoughts?
David
David R Huberman
Principal, Global IP Addressing
Microsoft Corporation
_______________________________________________
PPML
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the
ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
_______________________________________________
PPML
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the
ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
_______________________________________________
PPML
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the
ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
