In my opinion, the organisation that holds the parent block is still the responsible party. In any case, ARIN considers its members to be organisations and not individuals. i.e. students, employees, guests wouldn’t fit that criteria.
By its very nature, hotspots do not track the end-users and VPNs are considered private traffic between host and public facing server. However an Organisation provides resources to another Organisation, however short the timeframe, should be considered a sub-assignment. Orin Roberts From: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Owen DeLong Sent: May-14-18 5:04 PM To: David Farmer <[email protected]> Cc: ARIN-PPML List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments While students and employees shouldn’t be considered temporary in nature, generally speaking the assignment of addresses to their devices is a different matter and is (for most situations) temporary in nature. Owen On May 14, 2018, at 00:17, David Farmer <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Students in the case of a University or other school, or staff/employees in the case of most organizations shouldn't be considered "temporary", how about "ancillary". On the other hand guest or customers of an organizations "temporary" seems an appropriate description and a timeframe of day or weeks also seems appropriate. On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I disagree. For example, since a university student is one of the examples cited and is entirely appropriate, I would argue that even though the student may have the same address assigned persistently to a desktop computer in a dorm room for months or even years, I believe it is still within policy intent. As such, I believe that “temporary” without clarification as to definite time period is more appropriate. Does this open up some abuse possibilities and loop-holes? Sure. It does, but so do many of our other policies. In general we’ve decided that benefiting the community and creating policy with a clear intent for people of good will to follow is superior to attempting to address every corner case and close every loophole. I see no reason not to follow that modus operandi here. Owen On May 11, 2018, at 7:14 AM, David Farmer <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I'd suggest "temporary, in a timeframe of days or weeks," is what we should say. In my mind, implying something like 90 days would probably be approaching an outer limit, and many months or a year exceeds the policy intent we have. That said, I don't think there is a good reason for a bright line within the policy either. Thanks. On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 4:31 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: We don’t care if temporary is taken as “hours, minutes, days, months or years”? When we have the examples as “students, employees, etc.”, I think it is clear the intent but removing them we are missing this piece, unless the staff interprets the policy manual looking at the original “complete” justification text of the policy proposal. However, that has the disadvantage that the community (a newcomer) it not recalling the background of the policy proposal, that’s why I was using the examples in my original text. Regards, Jordi De: Owen DeLong <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Fecha: jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 17:19 Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> CC: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Asunto: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments I think the best word would be temporary. As you have said, it denotes a connection which is transient in nature. You come, you get an address while you’re connected, then you leave. This is temporary. Even if you’re there for several days (as in a hotel guest network), it’s still temporary in nature. Owen On May 10, 2018, at 8:29 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I don’t think that will help, on the contrary … you can use both static or dynamic mechanism for both temporary and non-temporary assignments. What I think it was clear is the differentiation between a “permanent broadband service” and a temporary service (you come to your workplace and get connectivity while you’re there, same if you are a “guest visitor”). So it still looks to me that “non-permanently” is more obvious? Maybe “non-continuously”? Regards, Jordi De: Chris Woodfield <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Fecha: jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 15:19 Para: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> CC: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Asunto: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments The two terms, from my reading, are synonymous but carry different implications, with the term “non-permanently” implying a longer period of time than “temporarily". In practice, It will most likely be a distinction built into how addresses are assigned by the organization (i.e. static or dynamic assignment); would using that as our distinction be a useful avenue to explore? -C On May 10, 2018, at 8:07 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: When I first used “temporarily” in a preliminary version of the proposal, I was argued that it is not clear then if it is “minutes, hours, days, …”, so non-permanently, looks like clearer in that sense … It may be a matter of not being native English speaker. Regards, Jordi De: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> en nombre de John Santos <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Fecha: jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 15:01 Para: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Asunto: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments I find the word "temporarily" even more obvious than "non-permanently". If those two words don't mean the same thing, then we definitely need a definition. On 5/10/2018 5:08 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: What will be your opinion if I amend this proposal, so it works for both IPv4 and IPv6, having this text in section 2.5 (Allocate and Assign), make it shorter and more generic: “A unique IPv4 or IPv6 address or a unique IPv6 /64 prefix, which is non-permanently provided to third parties, shall not be considered an assignment” Alternatively, if we don’t want to go so far as to define the “size”: “An IPv4 or IPv6 block of address, which is non-permanently provided to third parties, shall not be considered an assignment” I didn’t found short-term defined in the NRPM. Do you still think we need to define “permanently” ? I think saying non-permanently it is quite obvious, but maybe folks disagree … Regards, Jordi De: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> en nombre de Jo Rhett <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Fecha: miércoles, 9 de mayo de 2018, 20:37 Para: <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> CC: <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Asunto: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments "Nominative, verb indirect" isn't English ;) Clean english structure would be: "A unique address or a unique /64 prefix that is non-permanently provided to third parties shall not be considered an assignment. " Or if you really want a descriptive phrase that modifies the nominative you can get commas like so: "A unique address or a unique /64 prefix, which is non-permanently provided to third parties, shall not be considered an assignment." I would also argue that this phrase is very vague unless "permanently" is defined elsewhere in the document. Wasn't there some phrasing around short-term assignment? (sorry, too busy/too lazy to grab the entire doc right now) On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 6:40 PM Andrew Dul <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I'd like to suggest that the proposed policy text be shorted and clarified. I don't believe all the examples are necessary in the definition section. Add to the end of NRPM Section 2.5 - https://www.arin.net/policy/nrpm.html#two5 Current draft text: The fact that a unique address or even a unique /64 prefix is non-permanently provided to third parties, on a link operated by the original receiver of the assignment, shall not be considered a sub-assignment. This includes, for example, guests or employees (devices or servers), hotspots, and point-to-point links or VPNs. The provision of addressing for permanent connectivity or broadband services is still considered a sub-assignment. Only the addressing of the point-to-point link itself can be permanent and that addressing can't be used (neither directly or indirectly) for the actual communication. My suggested rewrite: A unique address or a unique /64 prefix that is non-permanently provided to third parties, shall not be considered an assignment. On 4/24/2018 11:57 AM, David Farmer wrote: I note that the text in question is the subject of an editorial change that the AC has recently forwarded to Board for review, at a minimum the policy text need to be updated to account for this editorial change. Further, I do not support the text as written. I support a change to section 2 that is not quite so IPv6 specific and focused more on the idea that providing hotspot, guest access, or other such temporary access does not necessitate the making of re-assignments from a policy perspective. Furthermore, such uses are not in conflict with the conditions of an assignment (made by ARIN) or re-assignment (made by an ISP or LIR). Also, If the details of RFC8273 need to be mentioned at all, they should be someplace in section 6, not in section 2, the definitions of assign, allocate, re-assign and re-allocate should remain agnostic about IP version. Thanks. On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:22 PM, ARIN <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: On 18 April 2018 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-254: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments" as a Draft Policy. Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4 is below and can be found at: https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2018_4.html You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource policy as stated in the Policy Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are: * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration * Technically Sound * Supported by the Community The PDP can be found at: https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at: https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html Regards, Sean Hopkins Policy Analyst American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments Problem Statement: When the policy was drafted, the concept of assignments/sub-assignments did not consider a practice very common in IPv4 which is replicated and even amplified in IPv6: the use of IP addresses for point-to-point links or VPNs. In the case of IPv6, instead of unique addresses, the use of unique prefixes (/64) is increasingly common. Likewise, the policy failed to consider the use of IP addresses in hotspots, or the use of IP addresses by guests or employees in Bring Your Own Device (BYOD) and many other similar cases. Finally, the IETF has recently approved the use of a unique /64 prefix per interface/host (RFC8273) instead of a unique address. This, for example, allows users to connect to a hotspot, receive a /64 such that they are “isolated” from other users (for reasons of security, regulatory requirements, etc.) and they can also use multiple virtual machines on their devices with a unique address for each one (within the same /64). Section 2.5 (Definitions/Allocate and Assign), explicitly prohibits such assignments, stating that “Assignments... are not to be sub-assigned to other parties”. This proposal clarifies this situation in this regard and better define the concept, particularly considering new uses of IPv6 (RFC8273), by means of a new paragraph. 5. Policy Statement Actual Text • Assign - To assign means to delegate address space to an ISP or end-user, for specific use within the Internet infrastructure they operate. Assignments must only be made for specific purposes documented by specific organizations and are not to be sub-assigned to other parties. New Text • Assign - To assign means to delegate address space to an ISP or end-user, for specific use within the Internet infrastructure they operate. Assignments must only be made for specific purposes documented by specific organizations and are not to be sub-assigned to other parties. The fact that a unique address or even a unique /64 prefix is non-permanently provided to third parties, on a link operated by the original receiver of the assignment, shall not be considered a sub-assignment. This includes, for example, guests or employees (devices or servers), hotspots, and point-to-point links or VPNs. The provision of addressing for permanent connectivity or broadband services is still considered a sub-assignment. Only the addressing of the point-to-point link itself can be permanent and that addressing can't be used (neither directly or indirectly) for the actual communication. 6. Comments a. Timetable for implementation: Immediate b. Anything else: Situation in other regions: This situation, has already been corrected in RIPE, and the policy was updated in a similar way, even if right now there is a small discrepancy between the policy text that reached consensus and the RIPE NCC Impact Analysis. A new policy proposal has been submitted to amend that, and the text is the same as presented by this proposal at ARIN. Same text has also been submitted to AfriNIC, LACNIC and APNIC. _______________________________________________ PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>). 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Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> if you experience any issues. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es<http://www.consulintel.es/> The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. 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