Students in the case of a University or other school, or staff/employees in the case of most organizations shouldn't be considered "temporary", how about "ancillary". On the other hand guest or customers of an organizations "temporary" seems an appropriate description and a timeframe of day or weeks also seems appropriate.
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:00 AM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote: > I disagree. > > For example, since a university student is one of the examples cited and > is entirely appropriate, I would argue that even though the student may > have the same address assigned persistently to a desktop computer in a dorm > room for months or even years, I believe it is still within policy intent. > As such, I believe that “temporary” without clarification as to definite > time period is more appropriate. > > Does this open up some abuse possibilities and loop-holes? Sure. It does, > but so do many of our other policies. In general we’ve decided that > benefiting the community and creating policy with a clear intent for people > of good will to follow is superior to attempting to address every corner > case and close every loophole. I see no reason not to follow that modus > operandi here. > > Owen > > > On May 11, 2018, at 7:14 AM, David Farmer <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'd suggest "temporary, in a timeframe of days or weeks," is what we > should say. In my mind, implying something like 90 days would probably be > approaching an outer limit, and many months or a year exceeds the policy > intent we have. That said, I don't think there is a good reason for a > bright line within the policy either. > > Thanks. > > On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 4:31 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> We don’t care if temporary is taken as “hours, minutes, days, months or >> years”? >> >> >> >> When we have the examples as “students, employees, etc.”, I think it is >> clear the intent but removing them we are missing this piece, unless the >> staff interprets the policy manual looking at the original “complete” >> justification text of the policy proposal. However, that has the >> disadvantage that the community (a newcomer) it not recalling the >> background of the policy proposal, that’s why I was using the examples in >> my original text. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Jordi >> >> >> >> >> >> *De: *Owen DeLong <[email protected]> >> *Fecha: *jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 17:19 >> *Para: *JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email protected]> >> *CC: *<[email protected]> >> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on >> IPv6 Sub-Assignments >> >> >> >> I think the best word would be temporary. >> >> >> >> As you have said, it denotes a connection which is transient in nature. >> You come, you get an address while you’re connected, then you leave. >> >> >> >> This is temporary. Even if you’re there for several days (as in a hotel >> guest network), it’s still temporary in nature. >> >> >> >> Owen >> >> >> >> >> >> On May 10, 2018, at 8:29 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> I don’t think that will help, on the contrary … you can use both static >> or dynamic mechanism for both temporary and non-temporary assignments. >> >> >> >> What I think it was clear is the differentiation between a “permanent >> broadband service” and a temporary service (you come to your workplace and >> get connectivity while you’re there, same if you are a “guest visitor”). >> >> >> >> So it still looks to me that “non-permanently” is more obvious? Maybe >> “non-continuously”? >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Jordi >> >> >> >> >> >> *De: *Chris Woodfield <[email protected]> >> *Fecha: *jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 15:19 >> *Para: *JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <[email protected]> >> *CC: *<[email protected]> >> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on >> IPv6 Sub-Assignments >> >> >> >> The two terms, from my reading, are synonymous but carry different >> implications, with the term “non-permanently” implying a longer period of >> time than “temporarily". In practice, It will most likely be a distinction >> built into how addresses are assigned by the organization (i.e. static or >> dynamic assignment); would using that as our distinction be a useful avenue >> to explore? >> >> >> >> -C >> >> >> >> >> On May 10, 2018, at 8:07 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> When I first used “temporarily” in a preliminary version of the proposal, >> I was argued that it is not clear then if it is “minutes, hours, days, …”, >> so non-permanently, looks like clearer in that sense … It may be a matter >> of not being native English speaker. >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Jordi >> >> >> >> >> >> *De: *ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> en nombre de John Santos < >> [email protected]> >> *Fecha: *jueves, 10 de mayo de 2018, 15:01 >> *Para: *<[email protected]> >> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on >> IPv6 Sub-Assignments >> >> >> >> I find the word "temporarily" even more obvious than "non-permanently". >> If those two words don't mean the same thing, then we definitely need a >> definition. >> >> >> >> On 5/10/2018 5:08 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: >> >> What will be your opinion if I amend this proposal, so it works for both >> IPv4 and IPv6, having this text in section 2.5 (Allocate and Assign), make >> it shorter and more generic: >> >> >> >> “A unique IPv4 or IPv6 address or a unique IPv6 /64 prefix, which is >> non-permanently provided to third parties, shall not be considered an >> assignment” >> >> >> >> Alternatively, if we don’t want to go so far as to define the “size”: >> >> >> >> “An IPv4 or IPv6 block of address, which is non-permanently provided to >> third parties, shall not be considered an assignment” >> >> >> >> I didn’t found short-term defined in the NRPM. Do you still think we need >> to define “permanently” ? I think saying non-permanently it is quite >> obvious, but maybe folks disagree … >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Jordi >> >> >> >> >> >> *De: *ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >> en nombre de Jo Rhett <[email protected]> >> <[email protected]> >> *Fecha: *miércoles, 9 de mayo de 2018, 20:37 >> *Para: *<[email protected]> <[email protected]> >> *CC: *<[email protected]> <[email protected]> >> *Asunto: *Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on >> IPv6 Sub-Assignments >> >> >> >> "Nominative, verb indirect" isn't English ;) Clean english structure >> would be: >> >> "A unique address or a unique /64 prefix that is non-permanently >> provided to third parties shall not be considered an assignment. " >> >> >> Or if you really want a descriptive phrase that modifies the nominative >> you can get commas like so: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> "A unique address or a unique /64 prefix, which is non-permanently >> provided to third parties, shall not be considered an assignment." >> >> I would also argue that this phrase is very vague unless "permanently" is >> defined elsewhere in the document. Wasn't there some phrasing around >> short-term assignment? (sorry, too busy/too lazy to grab the entire doc >> right now) >> >> >> >> On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 6:40 PM Andrew Dul <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I'd like to suggest that the proposed policy text be shorted and >> clarified. I don't believe all the examples are necessary in the >> definition section. >> >> Add to the end of NRPM Section 2.5 - https://www.arin.net/policy/ >> nrpm.html#two5 >> >> Current draft text: >> >> The fact that a unique address or even a unique /64 prefix is >> non-permanently provided to third parties, on a link operated by the >> original receiver of the assignment, shall not be considered a >> sub-assignment. This includes, for example, guests or employees (devices or >> servers), hotspots, and point-to-point links or VPNs. The provision of >> addressing for permanent connectivity or broadband services is still >> considered a sub-assignment. Only the addressing of the point-to-point link >> itself can be permanent and that addressing can't be used (neither directly >> or indirectly) for the actual communication. >> >> My suggested rewrite: >> >> A unique address or a unique /64 prefix that is non-permanently provided >> to third parties, shall not be considered an assignment. >> >> >> >> On 4/24/2018 11:57 AM, David Farmer wrote: >> >> I note that the text in question is the subject of an editorial change >> that the AC has recently forwarded to Board for review, at a minimum the >> policy text need to be updated to account for this editorial change. >> Further, I do not support the text as written. >> >> I support a change to section 2 that is not quite so IPv6 specific and >> focused more on the idea that providing hotspot, guest access, or other >> such temporary access does not necessitate the making of re-assignments >> from a policy perspective. Furthermore, such uses are not in conflict with >> the conditions of an assignment (made by ARIN) or re-assignment (made by an >> ISP or LIR). Also, If the details of RFC8273 need to be mentioned at all, >> they should be someplace in section 6, not in section 2, the definitions of >> assign, allocate, re-assign and re-allocate should remain agnostic about IP >> version. >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 23, 2018 at 2:22 PM, ARIN <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On 18 April 2018 the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-254: >> Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments" as a Draft Policy. >> >> Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4 is below and can be found at: >> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2018_4.html >> >> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will >> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this draft >> policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource policy as stated >> in the Policy Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are: >> >> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration >> * Technically Sound >> * Supported by the Community >> >> The PDP can be found at: >> https://www.arin.net/policy/pdp.html >> >> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at: >> https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/index.html >> >> Regards, >> >> Sean Hopkins >> Policy Analyst >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >> >> >> >> Draft Policy ARIN-2018-4: Clarification on IPv6 Sub-Assignments >> >> Problem Statement: >> >> When the policy was drafted, the concept of assignments/sub-assignments >> did not consider a practice very common in IPv4 which is replicated and >> even amplified in IPv6: the use of IP addresses for point-to-point links or >> VPNs. >> >> In the case of IPv6, instead of unique addresses, the use of unique >> prefixes (/64) is increasingly common. >> >> Likewise, the policy failed to consider the use of IP addresses in >> hotspots, or the use of IP addresses by guests or employees in Bring Your >> Own Device (BYOD) and many other similar cases. >> >> Finally, the IETF has recently approved the use of a unique /64 prefix >> per interface/host (RFC8273) instead of a unique address. This, for >> example, allows users to connect to a hotspot, receive a /64 such that they >> are “isolated” from other users (for reasons of security, regulatory >> requirements, etc.) and they can also use multiple virtual machines on >> their devices with a unique address for each one (within the same /64). >> >> Section 2.5 (Definitions/Allocate and Assign), explicitly prohibits such >> assignments, stating that “Assignments... are not to be sub-assigned to >> other parties”. >> >> This proposal clarifies this situation in this regard and better define >> the concept, particularly considering new uses of IPv6 (RFC8273), by means >> of a new paragraph. >> >> 5. Policy Statement >> >> Actual Text >> >> • Assign - To assign means to delegate address space to an ISP or >> end-user, for specific use within the Internet infrastructure they operate. >> Assignments must only be made for specific purposes documented by specific >> organizations and are not to be sub-assigned to other parties. >> >> New Text >> >> • Assign - To assign means to delegate address space to an ISP or >> end-user, for specific use within the Internet infrastructure they operate. >> Assignments must only be made for specific purposes documented by specific >> organizations and are not to be sub-assigned to other parties. >> >> The fact that a unique address or even a unique /64 prefix is >> non-permanently provided to third parties, on a link operated by the >> original receiver of the assignment, shall not be considered a >> sub-assignment. This includes, for example, guests or employees (devices or >> servers), hotspots, and point-to-point links or VPNs. The provision of >> addressing for permanent connectivity or broadband services is still >> considered a sub-assignment. Only the addressing of the point-to-point link >> itself can be permanent and that addressing can't be used (neither directly >> or indirectly) for the actual communication. >> >> >> >> 6. Comments >> >> a. Timetable for implementation: >> >> Immediate >> >> b. Anything else: >> >> Situation in other regions: This situation, has already been corrected in >> RIPE, and the policy was updated in a similar way, even if right now there >> is a small discrepancy between the policy text that reached consensus and >> the RIPE NCC Impact Analysis. A new policy proposal has been submitted to >> amend that, and the text is the same as presented by this proposal at ARIN. >> Same text has also been submitted to AfriNIC, LACNIC and APNIC. >> _______________________________________________ >> PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> =============================================== >> David Farmer Email:[email protected] >> Networking & Telecommunication Services >> Office of Information Technology >> University of Minnesota >> 2218 University Ave SE >> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2218+University+Ave+SE&entry=gmail&source=g> >> Phone: 612-626-0815 >> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 >> =============================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> PPML >> >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are >> receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy >> Mailing List ([email protected]). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing >> list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please >> contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> >> ********************************************** >> IPv4 is over >> Are you ready for the new Internet ? >> http://www.consulintel.es >> The IPv6 Company >> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this >> communication and delete it. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> ARIN-PPML >> >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> John Santos >> >> Evans Griffiths & Hart, Inc. >> >> 781-861-0670 ext 539 >> >> _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are >> receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy >> Mailing List ([email protected]). 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If you are not the >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this >> communication and delete it. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> >> >> >> ********************************************** >> IPv4 is over >> Are you ready for the new Internet ? >> http://www.consulintel.es >> The IPv6 Company >> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this >> communication and delete it. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> >> >> ********************************************** >> IPv4 is over >> Are you ready for the new Internet ? >> http://www.consulintel.es >> The IPv6 Company >> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this >> communication and delete it. >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> > > > -- > =============================================== > David Farmer Email:[email protected] > Networking & Telecommunication Services > Office of Information Technology > University of Minnesota > 2218 University Ave SE > <https://maps.google.com/?q=2218+University+Ave+SE&entry=gmail&source=g> > Phone: 612-626-0815 > Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 > =============================================== > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. > > > -- =============================================== David Farmer Email:[email protected] Networking & Telecommunication Services Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 ===============================================
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