This is totally out of bounds and name calling. I ask the arin staff remove 
this person from the list.

Larry Ash
Mountain West Telephone


> On May 3, 2019, at 7:27 PM, Marilson Mapa <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> "The proponents of this proposal want you to think this proposal only affects 
> hijackers. That is not the case, this proposal affects anyone who operates a 
> router. It puts anyone who operates a router in jeopardy of losing their 
> Internet resources."
> 
> The name of that, Mr. Farmer, is terrorism. You are pre-judging the 
> proponents and trying to create a threatening environment. Not satisfied puts 
> proponents as members of a Ku Klux Klan that "want you to think this proposal 
> only affects hijackers"... (???) 
> 
> "To be honest, I see more of a lynch mob mentality then true justice in this 
> proposal."
> "When evaluating this proposal, don't envision a hijacker being judged, 
> envision yourself being judged by this system, because you just might be."
> 
> This is terrorism. You are trying to implant fear in the defense of "out of 
> scope". And I see a lynch mob mentality in your arguments.
> 
> Mr. Farmer, in the face of your behaviour I address to you some of the 
> questions of the ethical Andrew Bagrin:
> I'm curious why do you not want to let ARIN try to start getting involved to 
> help resolve the issue of hijacking?
> Are you doing hijacking and don't want interference?
> Are you running a competitive service that you charge for?
> 
> BTW, Carlos and Jordi are not asking to approve the text that you say has 
> ulterior motives. They are asking for help in getting a text that solves one 
> of the problems of the community. Using terrorist tactics to counter the 
> proposal just incriminates you.
> 
> Marilson
> 
> 
>> Em sex, 3 de mai de 2019 às 14:22, David Farmer <[email protected]> escreveu:
>> Simply getting involved in hijacking is not what is proposed. And, by the 
>> way, ARIN and the other RIRs already are involved, heard of RPKI, IRR, 
>> etc...  You can't say the problem is being ignored.  Are these responses 
>> truly effective? Maybe not. Do we need to do more? Probably. Is this the 
>> answer? Maybe, but it really scares me.
>> 
>> This proposal wants ARIN and the other RIRs to penalize hijacking.  To do 
>> this someone has to judge the intent behind these events. From the other 
>> side of the Internet, it is difficult with any certainty to tell the 
>> difference between a typo and malicious activity in many of these events. 
>> 
>> Have you ever been on a jury in a murder trial? I have. The difference 
>> between the various counts of murder and manslaughter basically comes down 
>> to determining the intent involved in the actions causing the death of 
>> another human being. If you are involved in the death of someone and even if 
>> there is no culpable negligence or intent on your part, such an event is 
>> important enough for society to scrutinize your actions.
>> 
>> So, I have some questions back to you; 
>> Have you ever mistyped an IP address or an ASN? 
>> Across the Internet, how many mistyped IP addresses and ASNs occur on a 
>> daily basis? 
>> 
>> This proposal asks ARIN and the other RIRs to create a system to scrutinize 
>> the actions of network operators and also impose penalties for those 
>> actions. This is not something that should be taken lightly. It is possible 
>> anyone on this mailing list will have to have their actions judged by this 
>> system. The proponents of this proposal want you to think this proposal only 
>> affects hijackers. That is not the case, this proposal affects anyone who 
>> operates a router. It puts anyone who operates a router in jeopardy of 
>> losing their Internet resources, for possibly something as innocent as 
>> making a typo in their router config.  
>> 
>> Do we really need and want to go there? I'm not saying no, but let's be 
>> really sure. And we have to make sure we get the system right, because any 
>> one of us may have to be judged by this system. When I look at this 
>> proposal, I don't see enough due process or safeguards involved that I feel 
>> comfortable subjecting myself to it. 
>> 
>> To be honest, I see more of a lynch mob mentality then true justice in this 
>> proposal.
>> 
>> When evaluating this proposal, don't envision a hijacker being judged, 
>> envision yourself being judged by this system, because you just might be.    
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>>> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 9:05 AM Andrew Bagrin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I'm curious why do people not want to let ARIN try to start getting 
>>> involved to help resolve the issue of hijacking?
>>> 
>>> Are you doing hijacking and don't want interference?
>>> Are you running a competitive service that you charge for?
>>> 
>>> Does anyone believe there is a valid reason to hijack and advertise IP 
>>> space that you do not own? (when the owner of that space does not want you 
>>> to advertise it)
>>> 
>>> Why would anyone be against ARIN having a process to help resolve these 
>>> issues?  Sure we can question how effective it will be, but anything will 
>>> be more effective than nothing, and by actually doing, failing and 
>>> learning, ARIN will only improve and refine the process. We will all learn 
>>> from this.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:08 PM Marilson Mapa <[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> The president of ARIN describes his institution as an RIR with appropriate 
>>>> and functional policies. This is what we can deduce from his speech 
>>>> whenever he describes the performance of his institution. This same 
>>>> attitude can be seen in RIPE.
>>>> 
>>>> "Violation can have consequence".
>>>> 
>>>> It seems that the expression "can have" should be understood as "almost 
>>>> never", after all how to explain the rot that permeates the global 
>>>> Internet? The complaints, the lawsuits, the fines are becoming more and 
>>>> more frequent.
>>>> I have today received as a member of BPF Cybersecurity the document **UN 
>>>> 1st Committee Processes on Responsible State Behaviour in Cyberspace 
>>>> explainer**. This 25-page document, addressed to ICANN, reports what they 
>>>> call disastrous behavior. It was drafted by Rubin International Law Firm 
>>>> and Notary of Israel for a Jewish religious institution. 
>>>> 
>>>> Basically they are demanding:
>>>> "We require ICANN to terminate immediately the activities fostering 
>>>> Internet addiction, including the performance of relevant IANA functions, 
>>>> relevant gTLD activities, relevant Registry Operators' activities, 
>>>> relevant ICANN-accredited registrars' activities, including through RESP 
>>>> and amendments of registry and registrar agreements and to refrain from 
>>>> renewing the .info registry agreement with Afilias unless Afilias and its 
>>>> related companies terminate immediately activities fostering Internet 
>>>> addiction and the .info registry agreement is amended to prohibit Internet 
>>>> addiction activities."
>>>> 
>>>> It's just one of the thousands of complaints popping up around the globe. 
>>>> And ARIN does not move a finger... It's out of the scope...
>>>> 
>>>> Marilson
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Em qui, 2 de mai de 2019 às 17:01, John Curran <[email protected]> 
>>>>> escreveu:
>>>>> > On May 2, 2019, at 2:12 PM, Carlos Friaças via ARIN-PPML 
>>>>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> > ...
>>>>> > It seems evident that a RIR can't revoke legacy space. Ever.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carlos -
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the case of ARIN that would be incorrect, as ARIN has revoked legacy 
>>>>> address space from parties that have violated registry policies.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ARIN registry policies are applicable to all parties in the registry - 
>>>>> those legacy holders under RSA do have specific terms and conditions (and 
>>>>> a reduced fee schedule), but ARIN registry policies are applicable 
>>>>> regardless and violation can have consequence.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> /John 
>>>>> 
>>>>> John Curran
>>>>> President and CEO
>>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ARIN-PPML
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> ===============================================
>> David Farmer               Email:[email protected]
>> Networking & Telecommunication Services
>> Office of Information Technology
>> University of Minnesota   
>> 2218 University Ave SE        Phone: 612-626-0815
>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029   Cell: 612-812-9952
>> ===============================================
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